View Full Version : Need Prayer - This one is too tough to handle
I need some prayer big time. I'm hurting.
This the short story, details purposefully left out.
The now former assistant pastor (age 24? fresh from Bible College) at my church decided he wanted to leave his beautiful wife and less than a year old daughter for MY 18 YEAR OLD DAUGHTER! :mad:
A month or so ago at the teen winter camp, this fellow told my daughter he left his wife, and wants my daughter, because she is the babe for him. We found out this fellow had been showing up at my daughter's work for a few weeks previously (Oh sweetie, I forgot something at Walmart, so I need to go down and purchase it (big lie), I know it's past 8:30 PM). He had talked my daughter into getting alone in the car with him, because after all, this was an assistant pastor, and she could trust him, because he needed to talk (her mistake).
Thankfully, nothing physically really happened. This guy kept trying to sweet talk my daughter, and prime her, then popped this "left my wife for you" information on her at winter camp.
Thankfully, she said no, went to my wife (who happened to be up volunteering that day at the camp). My wife and daughter found the pastor, the fellow was fired on the spot, and immediately escorted off the camp premises, as soon as they could.
This is very hurtful.
The Bible is clear about restoration. The fellow got up about a week later in front of the church and confessed and apologized (It did not look real to me, but who am I to judge). He then afterword came and apologized personally to me and my wife, and my family. He is restored back to the congregation according to the Bible. Hopefully, a life lesson learned by this fellow.
I told him I forgave him. After all, we all struggle from time to time with sinful thoughts, and it's the Biblical thing to do.
I'm just having the most difficult time forgetting, and getting this pain away. This guy keeps showing up at the services, and this just makes it painful. I would rather have him at our services, so 100 men can keep an eye on him, rather than have him go to another congregation, and have them deal with him, and the problem goes elsewhere. However, this is just so painful. We have to go out of our way to make sure that our daughter's path and his path never cross. And the feelings and emotions I get, are most difficult.
And my daughter, she is confused, and hurting too, as well as my whole family.
I'm asking for your prayers to get over this.
SKP
Hawg Caller
03-01-2004, 01:51 PM
I'm praying for you and the family, "Caution" is not a bad! thing here...from my experience theres probably a deeper thing going on with this guy.I feel for you guys.Watch out for "warning signs",and talk to your daughter,and pray, thats about all you can do for now.
Len Spesert
03-01-2004, 02:01 PM
I'll pray for strength for you and your family. It speaks well of you and your wife that your daughter knew what to do when confronted with this problem.
Jesus said to be forgiving, but He also said to be wise. To forgive a sin does not mean one restores the sinner as though he had not sinned, nor does it remove the ramifications of the sin. The sin remains, only the one who forgives looks beyond the sin and in time forgets. But, forgetting does take time and it needs evidence that repentance is real. You will know when there is sufficient evidence. Until then, be very careful and discerning.
Keep in mind that it is not your daughter nor your family that has sinned, and either she nor you should feel any shame in it.
Also, in time the anger will pass.
MrsSled19
03-01-2004, 02:18 PM
Our family will pray graemlins/hearton.gif
Forgivness does not mean forgetness it is not unwise to file certain things in the back of your mind. It may help later down the way if Lordforbid
this ever happen again to some one that you acquainted with. We will pray for your family to heal, and also that the Lord will bring his lost sheep back to the flock so that he may not be lost again. graemlins/hearton.gif
Grantspastor
03-01-2004, 03:07 PM
SKP...he was "restored" too soon. After something like that, a track record of faithfulness needs to be establsished. Hang in there. I"ll pray for you. Feel fre to e-mail me if you want
Dave
I trusted this guy. I took this guy fishing, even while he was attempting to see my daughter at her work. I netted this guys first salmon he ever hooked on his own. He netted my largest winter steelhead this past December. I sold this guy my first house in November(which I had kept as a rental), and I knocked off $7000.00 off the price, so he could qualify for the loan(at my loss), and I bought brand new carpet for him for this house as part of the deal. I bent over backwards to this guy, and wham, he hit me in between the eyes.
I know the Bible says that he that is without sin among you, cast the first stone. I can't throw a stone.
Pray for strength for my family and my self. This is difficult. I'm very deeply hurt.
As for our church and Pastor, they have been very wonderful and supportive. Dozens of men have told me they have eyes on this guy at all times. I'm sure though that this infatuation that he has admitted to having for a year, just doesn't disappear in one week.
SKP
CATCH AND EAT
03-01-2004, 04:15 PM
To restore someone in a power postion like this in a church is foolish non-sense SKP. The church should still love and care for him and provide a support network for him but to restore him so soon? That's just not right. As far as I am concerned he has disqualified himself as a minister and must go through a complete reclamation process which means consoling, training, and possibly a Pornography detoxification class. Did they check his computer at work for this garbage? I hope they did!
It really tics me off when someone that is put in such a "trust" position like this in the ministry goes against all his schooling, biblical principles, and the trust of a congregation to risk everything for the sake of a young lady for which he believes the grass is greener.
Can you tell I am upset about this? I have seen this happen in a church personally and it is totally sick and a total lack of respect for his postion and for his wife. Hopefully he is getting marriage counseling too. I can only imagine the hurt and embarassment his wife is going through at this time. :depressed:
This is the kind of thing that can shake your daughters faith too SKP. You might consider some counseling for her or at least a talk with the senior pastor of the church. Remember this guy would have never come forward unless he was caught right.
Very uncomfortable situation for your family too. Personally, your church was intially right to fire him. Unfortunatly he did not stay fired if I understand you correctly. :depressed:
We will be praying for your situation and that heeling will come to you and yours and to the congregation too. Very sad indeed. :depressed:
[ 03-01-2004, 04:29 PM: Message edited by: CATCH AND EAT ]
hankstr
03-01-2004, 04:53 PM
Originally posted by CATCH AND EAT:
To restore someone in a power postion like this in a church is foolish non-sense SKP. The church should still love and care for him and provide a support network for him but to restore him so soon? That's just not right. As far as I am concerned he has disqualified himself as a minister and must go through a complete reclamation process which means consoling, training, and possibly a Pornography detoxification class. Did they check his computer at work for this garbage? I hope they did!
It really tics me off when someone that is put in such a "trust" position like this in the ministry goes against all his schooling, biblical principles, and the trust of a congregation to risk everything for the sake of a young lady for which he believes the grass is greener.
Can you tell I am upset about this? I have seen this happen in a church personally and it is totally sick and a total lack of respect for his postion and for his wife. Hopefully he is getting marriage counseling too. I can only imagine the hurt and embarassment his wife is going through at this time. :depressed:
This is the kind of thing that can shake your daughters faith too SKP. You might consider some counseling for her or at least a talk with the senior pastor of the church. Remember this guy would have never come forward unless he was caught right.
Very uncomfortable situation for your family too. Personally, your church was intially right to fire him. Unfortunatly he did not stay fired if I understand you correctly. :depressed:
We will be praying for your situation and that heeling will come to you and yours and to the congregation too. Very sad indeed. :depressed: <font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">no he was not restored to asst pastor he will never be allowed that position but like skp said prayer is needed for all families involved. Its only by God's grace that we are not in the same situation. we all ahve a sin nature and a free will lets not give the devil any footholds amen??
SKP
I will pray for you and your family.
DAB
When I say restore, I don't mean his job, sorry for the confusion. He was fired from his job with no possibility for return to this position again, but the restoration is just to come to attend church. He does not get any position at the church back. His wife however, is employed by the church in her position, as she did not do anything wrong. She is trying hard to restore the marriage.
Because of his wife and child, I have to remain tender to the Holy Spirit's leading. I believe God will heal the man, but it doesn't make it any easier having to see the guy. But church is the best place for him. God wouldn't throw him in the gutter. Jesus forgave the theif on the cross. And He's forgiven a lot worse sin than this in the world.
Yes, they checked his computer, there was nothing on there. A computer professional checked it. The pastor had all computers at the church checked. Nothing came up.
It still is difficult though to have him present.
Please add this man's family to the prayers.
SKP
[ 03-01-2004, 05:13 PM: Message edited by: SKP ]
Salmon Stryker
03-01-2004, 08:09 PM
SKP- I'll be praying as well. That is a tough situation your family is in. I'm sure that you have already kicked around the idea of changing churches for a while. For me at least it would be difficult to have my head and heart in the right place if he were in the same service as me.
I feel sorry for the ex-pastor too. I believe that satan works overtime on pastor's and christian leaders and unfortunately this guy let his gaurd down and allowed sin to grab a foothold.
One of my mentor's from college who I really respected and a pastor of a church here in town came clean of a pornography addiction last year that led to an affair with a women in the church. It was very tough for me to hear that. I felt betrayed. But it drove home the point to me that as christians we are at war. Our lives are a battlefield. The bigger the ministry we have it seems the harder satan works on us.
SKP, hang in there and be strong in the Lord as I know you are. It's tough to imagine how you are feeling and I can only offer you prayer through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Blessings, Keith :smile:
happybrew
03-01-2004, 11:02 PM
Wow. That's a hard one to bear. I am praying for you, for your family, for your church, and yeah, I guess for him too.
C&E has some really good things to say on this.
As a Catholic, whose church has been ridden with scandal, I've got a few things to say on this. It's good that he won't be restored to ministry. This was the big mistake that the Catholic Church made. He should NEVER go back to ministry. Is there a state and national contact to let everyone else in your denomination know about this, so he doesn't just go anywhere else and do this? Does he still have access or contact with minors? Does he look around at church? At social activities? Does he glance at other young women? This is a man who KNOWS what he was supposed to do, and deliberately chose not to do it, but to do something contrary to what he was supposed to do. While forgiveness is a requirement, forgetfullness is stupid within 10 to 20 years. This sort of thing is a character flaw that took a long time to form, and will take a long time to get rid of. He has chosen to put thoughts and attitudes in his mind that affect the way he thinks. This is something that results in a neurological pattern in his brain that doesn't just disappear overnight. It will take an awful lot of work on his part, in cooperation with the Holy Spirit, to get rid of. And he can, and he will, go quite some time without temptation, only to fall suddenly when he lets his guard down, and when this happens, if he's not ready for either the temptation, or the fall, he could despair and give himself over to sin. Not good for him or anyone else.
But I digress to him, and not enough to you. You should praise your daughter for her entirely appropriate response to this. Obviously, she has been well brought up. You can be angry, and not sin. Your anger, if proportionate to what has happened, is justified. Even Jesus got angry. Your daughter may need help, to preserve her faith. Someone she was supposed to trust doing this to her, at such a young age, can seriously damage her faith. I've had no experience in this, but the parable in Matthew 13:24-29 comes to mind. Your wife and other women in your church would probably be the best people to counsel her, but you should play a role as well. Many times when this sort of thing happens to people, their faith suffers. Look after her faith.
Dang, you're gonna make me cry here. You are in our prayers.
happybrew
Kentucky Hog Hunter
03-02-2004, 12:17 AM
SKP...
I am saying a prayer for you and your family bud...
Hang in there and trust in our Lord & Savior Jesus Christ and he will comfort you...
Terry...
hb, your evaluation is rather strong given you don't even know this individual and especially his past. I am in agreement about the severity of what this person has done and this event will take time to heal but I'm not going so far as to indicate there is a mental problem that will surface at a later date. I'm not a professional therapist nor have a medical degree in psychology to even come close to suggesting a relapse in anyone to make this strong of a diagnosis. I'm somewhat surprised you are judging this person from a believers position. We all make mistakes and as a believer I know my sins and others will be forgiven through the blood of Christ. The Catholic church is especially sensitive at this time but please be careful not to be so paranoid of others because of this.
hb, I respect your posts and have for some time but if I may please reserve judgement to God and allow yourself to hold others accountable.
Blessings, Keith :smile:
happybrew
03-02-2004, 06:40 PM
FM2, you are correct.
happybrew
[ 03-02-2004, 07:14 PM: Message edited by: happybrew ]
PittsburghD
03-02-2004, 07:39 PM
It is times like this that we not only need to keep close to the ones we love but also to our enemies.
They (our enemeies) need us more in these times than even the ones we love.
Go to the well.
--D
SalmonSeason
03-03-2004, 12:25 AM
Everyone is being so kind here...SKP I'll take the guy fishin...he can hold the anchor!!
On a serious note, The man made a immature decision ... he's not the first nor will he be the last.
Sorry your daughter is confused Understand why she is confused, especially given that she is 18
She probably respected and admired him, but it is obvious that she is wise tell her that you understand her feelings and support her.
This man made a mistake and yes we should forgive him, but we keep our eyes on him and others. Protect your daughter in a way that does not push her away. Allow her to make her own decisions. She has shown that she is mature and wise. Trust her, she will know when the RIGHT guy comes along... Hopefully in 10 or so years :wink:
Larry@BigWater
03-03-2004, 12:47 AM
You are the unfortunate recipiant of our newly re-adjusted system. I am disgusted and appalled at what has become acceptable. I am sorry that you and your daughter have become the victim of what in recent past would have been deemed un-acceptable behavior, properly punishable. I personally, would not be able to accept what you have had to endure. I, as a true christian respect your endurance and value of principles. Hold true to them,,,,,,they are important and valuable. Thank you for sharing your moving story.
judyfish99
03-03-2004, 01:36 AM
I will pray for you, too. I pay child support for my daughter who is 14-1/2 and living with her Dad in Alaska. I worry about her too. It is especially tough when she is so far away. I am thankful that she does email. Hang in there, things will work out if the faith is strong. It was in Gods hands when you foung out. I am a newbie to ifish and am shy too. Am real happy that there is a site for us. Keep the faith, Judy graemlins/hearton.gif
feisty's wife
03-03-2004, 08:21 PM
Another fine example of a fine Christian...no wonder I dropped out of Churchianity.
feisty,
Are you saying outside the church, there is nothing but peace? Sin is everywhere, we still have sinful flesh. This is why God died for us. I'm in no way excusing this guy's sin, but we all are sinners, and this stuff happens everywhere the flesh is. We all are capable of making choices whether good or bad, whether or not you are in church. It wasn't the church that caused this guy to fall. It's sin - period. We all have this sin nature, since Adam fell.
I know of people that were fired at my company for wrong deeds. So should I quit the company now? Nope.
SKP
happybrew
03-03-2004, 09:52 PM
Feisty, the public schools have more of a problem with this than churches do. Psychiatrists are more likely to have relationships with their patients than pastors are. Workplaces are full of this sort of thing. How much are you willing to drop out of?
happybrew
Fish-n-Fever
03-04-2004, 05:58 PM
SKP
I also will pray for all those that are touched by this. My family went through a similar experience with my sister. A young man had my sister and himself believeing that god intended them to be together. Selective out of context portions of scripture can be "quoted" and can be very very convincing, especially when the heart and feelings are there to begin with.
I don't want you to think bad of me for saying this and I am not in any way judging but from past personal experience, keep and eye on your daughter also. From the beginning of your post I get the feeling there may have been some some "feelings" on your daughters part and things ended as they did when it became frightening for her.
It is great that she came to her mother for help and thank goodness she had that realtionship.
Just be careful and I know you are and will keep and eye and ear open.
My family was so blided by our love for my sister that we did't see that she aslo had a part in the ongoing "intrest".
Ron
Ron
happybrew
03-04-2004, 06:31 PM
For those interested in a summary of inapproriate behavior among different groups,
This page (http://catholicleague.org/research/abuse_in_social_context.htm)
has some interesting stats, with references.
happybrew
This situation makes me sad. I'm glad to hear that your daughter is strong.
feisty,
You need help. One persons misdeeds doesn't make all guilty.
CATCH AND EAT
03-05-2004, 02:51 PM
Originally posted by feisty:
Another fine example of a fine Christian...no wonder I dropped out of Churchianity. <font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">Feisty, people come here for support, praise and prayer. Your negativisms are ill place in a thread like this where a serious problem exists. If you have a problem with Christianity or the "Church" start your own thread and ask for imput. Then explain your contempt and anger all you want. graemlins/idea.gif
You must be coming here for some reason feisty other than to stir it up? Searching? :shrug: Must be to some extent or you would not be commenting. graemlins/idea.gif
As others here have explained we are human and will continue to make bad choices, mistake and even offend a brother. The solution is forgiveness of Christ Jesus. The offender in this case made a huge mistake and had obviously been thinking this over for awhile. In the context of the church he has disqualified himself as a minister. Some churches might forgive this and reinstate the minister. I disagree with this practice because the minister has betrayed the trust of those he ministers to. In fact he lied before them and before God. That does not mean he cannot be forgiven by the persons he wronged or by God because in fact he can be forgiven. Just not put into a position that demands trust of the nature that the ministry dictates.
SKP very sorry to dilute your thread with my rant but I do not take lightly to feisty's rant. My appologies.
[ 03-05-2004, 03:04 PM: Message edited by: CATCH AND EAT ]
CATCH AND EAT,
No apologies needed on your post.
SKP
Pop'n Fish
03-08-2004, 09:45 AM
May I refer you to the book "Betrayal of Trust" by Stanley J. Grenz and Roy D. Bell. It's one that I have used in counseling with pastor's who have betrayed the trust of a congregation through sexual misconduct. It's published by InterVarsity Press (1995).
Restoration of a pastor is a long-term process. You should not feel guilty about have the feelings you have about this young assistant pastor's betrayal unless they center upon the desire for revenge of some sort.
Another book I have used is written by Ted Kitchens and is entitled "Aftershock!" Subtitle "What to do When Leaders (and others) Fail You." The last chapter has to do with restoration and is very good.
Neither book, however, compares to the Scriptures counsel It has some sharp rebuke for those who engage in sexual immorality (I Corinthians 5:1, 9, and many others), it also has much to say about restoration (Galatians 6:1).
I'll be praying for you.
SKP
It is not easy to be in your position at church, I Commend you in your willingness to be lead by the Holy Spirit in this mater. SKP it takes a real man of faith to handle it the way you are.
INCL--- DAB