What are your thoughts

[hickwithaflyrod]

We were having this discussion amongst my friends I think awhile back and just rememberd. Ok, here it goes....


Do you think god answeres the prayers of sinners as well as followers? And are the prayers and worship that we poor out toward him one day of the week for most, but then live unlike a follower the other six days, do thoughs songs and prayers mean nothing at all????


I had come out with this question because I had a friend that said she doesn't elive in god because everytime she prays nothing happens...

I think that if you live the life as a follower would, then he will help you in any way possable, but if you don't live a good life under his name then he will not answere your prayers. so what are your thoughts, oh and also do you think god can out give you, because I have given offerings at youth group but have always been awarded something grater......


John

[ 06-24-2003, 10:47 PM: Message edited by: hickwithaflyrod ]

[kingofbacklash]

hickwithaflyrod,
John thanks for this opportunity to share about prayer.
" Even though you pray for a worthy cause, there will be some tribulation, but when this is overcome, God's grace will pour upon you. No matter how violent the storm it is followed by sunshine. God wants to grant you the blessing, but if you do not have a big enough container so that God can fill it, God cannot grant more than your capacity. Through your actions, you must create a large container so that God can pour it full of blessings for you.
For example, one person has been a member of a local church for ten years, attends every Sunday, but without much devotion. Now a new member joins the church, and is really devoted. Who receives more grace from God? The one who is more active, not the one who just prays and waits. Now, after you have accomplished what you have been longing for through prayer and action, do not claim credit for yourself, but return the glory to God. Then God will give you even more blessing, several times more. You must learn to return the honor to God."
John may Heavenly Father always bless your life, and the lives of your loved ones.
God Bless

fearsnofish

[ 06-26-2003, 09:38 AM: Message edited by: kingofbacklash ]

[Grantspastor]

This is a serious question. I'll share a couple of thoughts. First of all, there is no question that God answers the prayers of "sinners". We are all sinners. If He didn't...how would we ever get saved? The Book of Hebrews says that those who come to God "must believe the He exists and that He is a rewarder of those who earnestly seek Him". I think that people need to mean business when they pray. Probably the real key to this discussion revolves around the words of Jesus when He said "no man comes to the Father except by me". People sometimes pray to God for relief from problems, with no desire or intention to seek Him as Saviour. This is problematic in that God's heart is that no one should be lost because of their sin....therefore (John 3:16-17)
In God's view the bigger issue is eternal destiny, not relief from problems. Ultimatley it has to be left to the wisdom, grace, and foreknowldge of God. I know of instances when God has answered prayers of people who called out in times of need...then later returned to their former lifestyles. Only God knows what will take place in the future. From a human standpoint...as long as there is life there is hope that someone will turn to Jesus

[ 06-27-2003, 10:52 PM: Message edited by: Grantspastor ]

[hickwithaflyrod]

Thanks for correcting me on that one, what I meant to say was people that didn't follow the lord. But how is a good way to get her to become a christian? But she has doubts about it because of what she prays never comes true. I have came to a fork in this confersation with her where I could just give up or take it further and I don't know what to do. I have taken her to church and I think our church is one of the best for teenagers in Salem (Dayspring Fellowship) because they go out of there way to find new people. She likes to go but she won't exept and I need to tell her why her prayers are not being answered. I have read and found nothing, is there a book that will help me out with this????

John

[happybrew]

1. Does God answer the prayers of sinners or people who don't follow him?

Yes! Luke 18
13"But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, 'God, have mercy on me, a sinner.'
14"I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted."

One of the things about being a sinner is that it means that one isn't following God. And we are all sinners. Some of us follow God more, and some of us follow him less, but we are all sinners, and God answers our prayers. I think that a key thing, though, is how we are praying. God can either say yes, no, or not yet. But He will answer. When we pray, we need to humble ourselves. When we pray for something, do we want it to glorify God, or do we want it to glorify ourselves? Also, even the ability to come to God in prayer at all is because of the grace of God, not our own doing. I think that a key thing to begin with when starting to pray if one hasn't done it much, and even if one prays all the time, is to pray that God will increase His grace in our lives, that we be filled with the Holy Spirit and do His will. Prayer should lead, not back to ourselves, but back toward God. God looks to our need, not necessarily to what we are specifically asking for. Look at John 2.

1On the third day a wedding took place at Cana in Galilee. Jesus' mother was there, 2and Jesus and his disciples had also been invited to the wedding. 3When the wine was gone, Jesus' mother said to him, "They have no more wine."
4"Dear woman, why do you involve me?" Jesus replied, "My time has not yet come."

Mary did not ask Jesus to give them more wine. Mary presented the need. It seems that Jesus gave a negative response, but we know that he performed His first miracle here. In fact, Mary did not even present a request. She presented a need, and let Jesus address that need as He saw fit, not as she or the hosts might see fit. When Jesus fulfilled that need, the guests received an abundance. They got over 120 gallons of the best wine! Imagine if they had gone to Jesus and asked for just 10 gallons of wine, and He had granted that request with wine made by human hands. They would have missed out. But when we allow Jesus to answer, not our request, but our need, then we receive in abundance! Sometimes we don't know what our need really is. Sometimes it takes a lot of time, decades even, before our prayers are answered, but if we are patient and have faith, they do get answered. St. Augustine of Hippo was a notorious pagan sinner. His mother, St. Monica, prayed for his conversion for THIRTY YEARS! She never gave up, but continued to pray unceasingly. When he converted, he was no hum-drum lackluster Christian who just went to church once a week. He became one of the greatest theologians of the early Church. If we are patient (even extremely patient) and have faith, God will answer our prayers in abundance.

2. Does God help us in any way possible if we live the life of a believer?

That depends upon what you mean by "any way possible". Many times, God answers our prayers, not with rewards, but with sufferings.

Matthew 16:24
Then Jesus said to his disciples, "If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow me.

Jesus did not call us to a life of comfort where He gives us everything we ask for. He said that we must take up our cross. Our crosses are small compared to His. When Jesus carried His cross, we must bear in mind that He had been beaten by the Pharisees, then scourged by the Romans. Pilate ordered him scourged with the idea of letting Him go, so the normal punitive scourging, almost, but not quite to the point of death was given. When they crucified someone, they would give a lesser scourging so that the person would have the strength to carry the cross. Jesus received a much greater scourging. On the way, they were so afraid that He would die before they crucified Him, that they pressed Simon the Cyrene into service to carry it part way. When He carried His cross, His back was torn to shreds and bloodied. He had been up all night with nothing to eat or drink. He suffered immensely. Our crosses are nothing like the cross He had to bear for our sins, yet we are unwilling to bear them. Bear them we must. That is why Paul tells us of the importance of perseverence. Paul and Peter were surely greater followers of Christ than you or I, yet they endured great sufferings for their faith in Christ, greater than you or I probably will, and this was counted as a greater blessing for them.

Matthew 5:11
"Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me.

Luke 6:22
Blessed are you when men hate you, when they exclude you and insult you and reject your name as evil, because of the Son of Man.

Even when we don't recognize our sufferings as blessings, they really are. Your friend is perhaps being blessed without recognizing it. It is a hard thing for many Christians to accept, but Jesus tells us in the Bible everything that will happen to us as believers. Do we as human beings want these things? No. But as believers in Christ we must accept them and count them as blessings. We should count our own crosses as blessings as well.


3. Does God not answer our prayers if we don't live a faithful Christian life?

He always answers them, but

James 5:16 The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective.

When we let God's grace envelope our lives, then our prayer becomes more effective. Thus, the first thing we should pray for is for an increase in grace, and God's strength to do His will.

Many prayers for you and your friend.

happybrew

[happybrew]

Originally posted by hickwithaflyrod:
Thanks for correcting me on that one, what I meant to say was people that didn't follow the lord. But how is a good way to get her to become a christian? But she has doubts about it because of what she prays never comes true. I have came to a fork in this confersation with her where I could just give up or take it further and I don't know what to do. I have taken her to church and I think our church is one of the best for teenagers in Salem (Dayspring Fellowship) because they go out of there way to find new people. She likes to go but she won't exept and I need to tell her why her prayers are not being answered. I have read and found nothing, is there a book that will help me out with this????

John <font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">Pray for her every day. Be ready to answer her questions. Don't be pushy. God will do all the work, you are just His instrument. It's her choice to respond to His call or not, and you don't figure into that equation. It is between her and God. You're just there to help God.

happybrew

[RvW]

Hick. I think it was when Jesus spoke to mathew, he said god already knows what your prayers are. I'm sure I am not the only one who has been in a dilemna, and had the lord come to my aid without a single prayer on the subject.

I speak to god all the time, sometimes verbally, sometimes in thought and I really think god hears me either way. Although Jesus did say to pray with upturned hands, and speak out to god (not in those exact words), I know I am heard.

As far as your friend, I dont know what to say and dont have any solution for you, but I wont hesitate to offer suggestions for you to consider. I must say its not something Ive dealt with so my suggestions are only things I would try.

Maybe have a discussion with your friend on the meaning of the word "faith". Ask her what ways she applies faith in her life with things other than the lord and prayer. It may help her apply some to the lord.
If you believe in the phrase "god wont give me anything I cant handle" you might suggest that unanswered prayers are a sign in themselves, that they go unanswered because the lord has faith in HER to make sound decisions, and be strong in times of trouble.

Ive looked at unanswered prayers in different ways in my life, and at one time it was a simple indicator that god doesnt care, or isnt really there. But I tend to see it differently now, and I ask MYSELF why those prayers go unanswered, and I typically attribute them to the fact that I do not know gods plan, and god does, therefore, the unanswered prayer is simply because of this.

Hope this helps, good luck.

[ 06-25-2003, 06:58 PM: Message edited by: cirrhosis-of-the-river ]

[PittsburghD]

Grantspastor is the man. I can't keep up. Anyway, the is the issue from my perspective, "What are you looking for?"

Pray now and look for an answer. No answer. Guess God isn't there. Wrong. It's all about you. As soon as you give up you, God will answer in His time.

Pressin' in. Ouuuuch!


----D :bowdown:

[hickwithaflyrod]

Thanks to everyone here!!! This was up and we were watching a movie and I had to go do something so she jumped on this and read everything then she looked at me and said that she had no clue people cared this much for her even if they didn't know her. She also cought on to was some of y'all said and we had a talk read a little and prayed, now look she is the happiest I have eer seen her, oh man am a happy now, thanks to everyone. I now have a new friend that will join me in prayer at church.....

Thanks, John

[FM2]

hick, after reading this today I thought of you and your situation. Hope this helps!

Matthew 6: 19-23
"Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and decay destroy, and thieves break in and steal. But store up treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor decay destroys, nor thieves break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there also will your heart be. The lamp of the body is the eye. If your eye is sound, your whole body will be filled with light; but if your eye is bad, your whole body will be in darkness. And if the light in you is darkness, how great will the darkness be.”

Introductory Prayer: Lord, enlighten my mind and open my eyes to you. You want to teach me what you hold as valuable in this world, and how to keep my heart set on heaven. Here I am, ready to do your will.

Petition: Lord, I know that nothing that this world has to offer can compare with you. Fill me with yourself, so that I may become your apostle.

1. “What is my treasure?”
There are two ways to read and interpret what this worldly treasure that Christ is speaking about. The first is in a literal way, referring to clothes and perhaps food stores and even precious metals. This is most likely the view that Our Lord’s listeners had in mind. The second way is to see these treasures as whatever the world holds valuable, such as honor, wealth, reputation, respect, health, etc. These things are all extrinsic, external, and can be taken away by the least mishap or difficulty. True, these things do count for something in this world and are not bad in themselves. The problem is that we center ourselves on these, and to such a degree that they become the only good, to be valued above all else. This turns us into pure egotists, ready to do anything to look out for ourselves, but not willing to lift a finger to come out of the comfort that we find in these things to help others. None of us will deny that he wants heaven at the end of his life. But it depends on if we are willing to earn it, in the way that God wants us to.

How then do we gain heaven? How do we store up for ourselves these treasures in heaven? We must choose: the treasure of the world or the treasure of heaven. The world or life. Myself or others. Christ sets this choice before us. Now we have to choose.

2. “Where the heart is, there the treasure is as well.”
Hopefully, all of us have chosen Christ. Normally, we would think this choice is an easy one, and it should be. But perhaps we do not know all that this choice implies. Once we choose Christ, there can be no looking back. “Anyone who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is not fit for the Kingdom of God.” We must be ready for suffering, for persecutions for the sake of his name. We must be ready for the cross. This is all clear enough. However, there are some who, though they have said that they chose Christ, have in reality chosen the world. There is a foolproof test for this, given to us by Christ in today’s Gospel. Where the treasure is there the heart will be also. But if we will always find the heart with its treasure, surely we can know the treasure by where the heart is. Christ told us in another place in the Gospel, “A man speaks forth from the abundance of his heart.” The heart abounds with its treasure. What is in the heart will be shown in a man’s words and actions, and this is where his treasure lies. If a I speak of worldly things, then it is a small step to see that his treasure is still set in this world. Let us examine our words and actions, to see if we have in reality chosen Christ or the world.

Dialogue with Christ: Lord, I have had a chance to look more seriously at myself in this meditation and examine if my heart is set on you, if my treasure is you. Perhaps there are some areas in which I still cling to the treasures of this world. But now, during this meditation, I want to get rid of them completely. I know that my heart can only be set on one thing, and that once it is, it will radiate forth whatever fills it. Fill me with yourself, so that I may radiate you. Anything that is not you cripples my efforts to give you to others; rid me of my selfishness. Make me your apostle.

Resolution: Today, whoever meets me will know that I know and love Christ. I will give him in some small way to others, be it in a kind word, be it in the form of some of my time, but especially with the example of my faithful living as a Christian.

By Peter Hopkins

[Grantspastor]

Hallelujah...God is good!

[kingofbacklash]

Amen John & All,
Keep sharing Heavenly Father's Sunshine, for these words of true love from your brothers and sisters are multiplying joy and happiness. May you always live for the sake of others. And may your container of giving spread to all you may come in contact with for Heavenly Father and all Mankind. Jesus our Lord and Savior has the largest container of God's true love, for His actions speak the same as His word. Praise God, Thank you Jesus and Heavenly Father for the grace you have given to us with true love. All Glory and Honor are yours and yours alone forever and ever Amen!
God Bless ifish Brothers and Sisters.
May Heavenly Father always bless you and your loved ones forever.


fearsnofish

[Cool Texan]

Big surprise that the Texan would point this out...but... There is a song by Garth Brooks called "Unanswered Prayers". In it he sings about running across his old high school girlfriend at a party. He gets to thinking back to how he used to pray and pray and pray for God to make this girl his own for life, so that they would always be together. He then spends more time with her that night and realizes that she is NOT who he thought she was. He then looks at his wife and children, and realizes how thankful he is at how things turned out. The chorus of the song is "Some of God's greatest gifts are Unanswered Prayers...".

So in my mind, yes, we are all sinners, and God answers all prayers....though not always the way we think he should answer them. Amen to God for that knowledge that we fail to have.

[happybrew]

Right on target CT. I can really identify with that. My life is much better than the one I had intended for myself, and I was dragged kicking and hollering into it. But when I got there, I realized it was much better than what I had originally wanted, and how incredibly blessed I am for it. Praise God for prayers answered with a big fat "NO!"

happybrew

[ 06-26-2003, 03:39 PM: Message edited by: happybrew ]

[Get Bit]

Hick and FM2,

Forgive me if this doesn't make sense. Our pastor has spoken about storing up treasures quite often. We did an entire study on "The Treasure Principle" by Randy Alcorn. Great book with a tremendous challenge. The thing that always gets me when speaking about this subject is that we don't know how long our physical life will be(we could die tomorrow). However, we know that by accepting Christ we have a life in Heaven forever. When looking at it in these terms, our physical time is but a mere dot in our lifeline when you include eternal life in heaven. WE must give our time, treasure and talents, while we our here. The term our pastor uses is "Live for the line and not for the dot."

[hickwithaflyrod]

Tex, I am very familiar with that song it's along the line as one of my favorits I don't know why I didn't think of that.....Thanks man.....

John

[Grantspastor]

Hick...is the church you are going to in Salem Pastored by Gary Bittner? If so I know him, and he would be very glad to answer any questions you or your friend have. If that is not the church you are going to, I'm sure one of the staff Pastors could help you one-on-one. I would also be glad to help via e-mail if issues come up and you just need advice. God bless!

Dave

[hickwithaflyrod]

Dave sorry that is not the pastor.........I will be joining S.A.L.T (student action leadership team) this coming fall and will be needing help so if our pastor is buissy I'd be willing to send to an e-mail.....Thanks

John

[David Johnson]

Jesus said abide in me and I will abide in you.

Also, dray close to Him and he will draw close to you.

I beleive that if we cultivate a close releationship with the Lord than we will be closer to his heart then our prayers will reflect that. We will be praying His will and His will will be answered.

Also, the yes, no and not yet answers are all possibilities when we pray.

[Cool Texan]

Originally posted by David Johnson:
Also, the yes, no and not yet answers are all possibilities when we pray. <font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">Reminds me of a story I heard a long time ago regarding a guy praying, and asking God why he doesn't answer on time. God explained to him that what seems like an eternity to man is only like a minute to God. What seems like billions of dollars to man is like only a penny to God.

The man ponders this and says "Ok Lord, I see your point. In that case, can I have one of your pennies?"

The Lord replied "Sure, give me a minute."