astral projection

[feisty's wife]

Been doing extensive reading/attempts at this unique tecnique since my Mom passed on, very encouraging as to the affirmation of not only our continued schooling, but a great God given gift. Havnt actually accomplished it yet, but have come close to it. Any other open-minded souls out there?

[FM2]

What is astral projection?

[happybrew]

It's a new age and/or wiccan thing.

happybrew

[STGRule]

FM2: It is the ability to leave your body behind and travel to other places with a conscious mind.

happybrew: It is neither new age nor Wiccan. It was even studied extensively by our very own government as a spy tool. While it seems to embraced by "new age" types, it has been around a bunch longer than that.

[FM2]

STGR, that sounds to far out there in terms of reality, seems science fiction to me and I don't think I could be convinced that something like that exist's within the real world.

This is nothing personal against you, I have enjoyed your contributions to ifish and appreciate your reply to my question.

[ 03-28-2003, 04:27 PM: Message edited by: FM2 ]

[happybrew]

Originally posted by STGRule:
FM2: It is the ability to leave your body behind and travel to other places with a conscious mind.

happybrew: It is neither new age nor Wiccan. It was even studied extensively by our very own government as a spy tool. While it seems to embraced by "new age" types, it has been around a bunch longer than that. <font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">Yes and no. Technically, it belongs in the category of the paranormal, which I'm embarrassed to say our government has studied for its possible uses against our enemies, along with exploding cigars, esp, and other such things. However, it implies the existence of a soul that is separate from the body, and thus its possible use (which I don't believe in) has a spiritual dimension that belongs squarely in the new age movement. A quick search of the subject revealed sites on the paranormal, new age sites, and sites which, while not overtly new age, used terms strongly associated with new age movements. I'm not trying to criticize other viewpoints, just trying to properly categorize it. I've really only seen it referred to before by people who hold new age beliefs. Those who don't hold such beliefs usually use the term "out-of-body experiences". The term "astral" comes from a set of of beliefs that are new-age in nature. Yes, it has been around a long time, but so has the worship of Egyptian and Babylonian gods, and the casting of spells, which are things embraced by some Wiccans and/or some people with new age beliefs.

happybrew

happybrew

[STGRule]

happybrew: I don't think its possible either, but I won't discount it completely. There is actually a lot of places to read about it on the web. Here is just one:

Remote Viewing - skeptics view (http://skepdic.com/remotevw.html)

[FM2]

I read through the article that was supplied and still find so many inconsistencies that even two people would not agree on this belief that remote viewing is possible nor accurate in any form. Again, looking at the year these studies were performed illustrate a period of time when technology was beginning to expand and move beyond mere human intellect and into more complex problem solving throught through the use of computers and other technological advances.

When thinking about "wickens" and other occult sects a thought process might develop into primitive and medival patterns and discounting current technology. With today's technology many of the past accepted belief's are discounted due to the fact many can be reproduced scienitifically. The human mind can be persuaded to believe a particular issue given enough convincing evidence to distract from the truth. I don't believe any psychologist will ever figure out the human mind and their therories will continually change just as technology changes which brings uncertainity. What is certain is there is an intelligent design to human life which science cannot explain yet the bible can. Personally I believe we as people have been designed by God to act, function, reproduce, adapt and forward the will of God which this belief has not changed for thousands of years relative to human existance. I just can't see how we can evolve from some mud puddle to be what we are today given the historical and scientific evidence that is available today.

So with that, even as opened minded as I am, won't be convinced of this topic given what I have read and the people behind it. You can get a tomato farmer to convince you he has the best ketchup because of his tomato's but can that farmer convince you the tomato's started out as a microrganism then became the best, good luck!!

Thanks happybrew and STR for your contributions, please keep them coming!

[happybrew]

Eeeek! They were planning on putting bombs on target based on somebody's claims about wandering around outside of their bodies???? Pardon me, but as a good Catholic boy, I find it as alarming as it would be if the DIA and CIA were planning operations based on rosaries and apparitions of the Virgin Mary. It just ain't gonna work in either case, and it completely misses the point of our spirituality, whatever beliefs about them one happens to hold. I think most people who hold new age beliefs would be similarly frightened by the prospect. Thanks for the link STGRule. You truly are the ruler of time, space and dimension. Can you post a pic of your cool crown? :wink:

happybrew

[STGRule]

happybrew: I'm only responsible for the non-deity part of the universe. I would love to show you my crown, but Jennie has asked that only fish pictures are loaded and I haven't figured out my home page stuff yet. I have to tell you though, it’s a cool crown. :wink:

[feisty's wife]

Stg Rule, you seem to have a very good grasp of the concept, I dont label it as New Age", only cause its not new, as you say, and because, to some peaple, that label is negative. There is an incredable amount of info on this subject, as you say, many web sites and books, I just got a book thru the library yesterday, "Adventures out of Body", then later I checked out the program schedule for Coast to Coast, and they were interviewinmg the author of the same book that nite, when I see grand synchronicity like this, I know i am on the right track. Thnx for your courteous reply

[happybrew]

Feisty, I don't use the term "new age" in a negative manner, and I certainly hope you didn't take it that way. Is there a different term you'd like to see used?

I do have another question for you. Assuming that you do have some sort of experience, how would you know that it is actual travel, and not merely a vision or a dream? And how would you verify the truth of whatever you see or hear? For me, spiritual practices have to have their value verified by evidence and logic, and by their results. I doubted very much the value of saying the rosary every day, but when I actually began to do so, I found that I was not subjected to the same temptations that I was previously, and it bore fruit in numerous ways. I doubted the value of confession to a priest, but it also bore fruit for me, after I became convinced that it is something biblical and necessary. I doubted very seriously Catholic teaching on birth control, but after careful examination of the reasons given and the relevant Bible passages, and there are many of both, I became convinced that it was the right way to go, and abandoning artificial birth control also bore fruit in my marriage, so that was verified for me both by logic and evidence, and by its results. So what would count as verification for you?

happybrew

[feisty's wife]

Let me illustrate verification, Plse respect this. My Mom "died" two years ago, I was holding her hand as she did. It was 6:30 in the am here. At the very moment she died here, back in Wisconson where my brother lives, his 3 yr old daughter went running to her mom, saying, Grandma is in my rm., she had not seen my mom in over a year....of course, when her mom looked, no one was there. My bro called his wife with the news of Moms passing hlf hr after the event, his wife related what the daughter had just experianced. This was astral travel, My Mom saying goodbye to a loved one....Folks, we know so little, yet assume so much...I learned that most of life does not fit my theology, Im open to learning, have broken out of my old mold, which was Churchianity, no slam on anyone.