Do you really think that fishermen are making a impact?

[David Johnson]

The sport fisherman has taken the brunt of cuts to preserve the fish. The public has had the wool pulled over their eyes if they think that cutting fishing will help the fish.

Yes, releasing native fish makes a difference, I am in ful support of that. I just have the hardest time with throwing back hatchery fish.

If the sports fishermen were making a big impact then when they closed sport fishing on the Columbia for Summer Chinook 30 years ago they should have rebounded. Instead they have recently ( a couple years ago) hit a all time low.

Yes, we do have our part in less fish in some instances, but we are just a small peice of the pie, dams, logging, grazing, predator imbalance, ocean conditions, ocean harvest, low water years..............all have their part in declined fish runs.

There are no small answers. For some wild stocks, such as east of the mountains, there will never be fish like there once was. Man kind has seen to that.

[Hookset]

Your probably right Dave. Maybe we should all look at sport fishing like the ODFW looks at upland bird hunting. With upland birds, the single biggest impact is nesting habitat and weather during the nesting season, not to mention predators. They say hunting has almost no impact on overall bird numbers from year to year since hunters seldom harvest that many birds. And it's been long recognized you only need a small number of nesting adults to maintain huntable numbers.

There is know reason to think fish are any different. Only a small number of adults are needed to sustain a healthy fish stock. But we of course altered this by placing obstacles in their path, polluting the waterways and unnaturally changing predatory species numbers through protection and improving their habitat and of course, creating large net fleets with state of the art electronics that target all fish that swim.

I guess it's always easier to regulate sports fisherman since we don't count for much. We are not united and do not have thousands of people, millions of dollars combined into a single organization that stands up for our rights in deciding fish regulations. We are the little people that just want to play at fishing.

hook

[David Johnson]

Hook,

Sport fishing is a Billion dollor industry, millions are spent just in the spring chinook season alone.

There is a organization that has made leaps and bounds in lobbying, both in the N.W. and D.C.

They are NSIA. North West Sportfishng Aliance.

I am a member, all the local sporting goods dealers, many manufactures, guides, businesses.....the list goes on and on.

If it wasn't for them there wouldn't be a fin clip fishery on any salmon, and there would be many more closures on the Columbia. Right now they are fighting to get us a season on the Columbia this spring.

We are starting to make a difference finally.

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[Phish_on]

I like to think that (recreational) fishermen are making a POSITIVE impact in trying to restore fish populations.

I believe HABITAT DESTRUCTION (dams, logging, urban growth) has been the most detrimental factor in recent years. Commercial fishing is probably where the decline began, around the turn of the century.

Now, fish populations have declined to the point where the impact of predators (including humans) has much more significance.

What was the question http://www.ifish.net/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif ?

[HOGTIDE]

In regard to the 'catching' of fish,I truly believe the impact of sportsman on the fish population is less than negligible. Aside from the fish we brag about and the projected 'take' numbers, I think the reality is that we rarely make a dent in the population. I spend my summer and fall fishing lower Columbia(hotspots?)nearly everyday. I talk to fish checkers and fishermen. With your own research, add Cowlitz, Kalama, Frenchmans, Chinook Landing and The Fishery numbers. Double your total for possible errors with Wa. and Or. counts. The true totals are embarrassingly small. Sure, there are hot bites from time to time, but they're pretty eradic. The actual numbers "boated" just aren't that high. Yet, we willingly and GLADLY invest alot of time, thought, effort, love and money into our sport. I believe we carry a major part of the burden for our sport, yet receive minimum access and maximum restriction in regard to it.
I don't even want to get started on the Springer fishing ripoff. (RT write another letter for me!)
Heck, I don't even care for the taste of salmon. I just want to go out and play!

[WildHawg]

Well stated David. As we both know, sportfishermen are not the main culprit; we just shoulder the brunt of the fallout. Sportfishing contributes far more to the coffers of our communities and governments than any commercial utilization of our fisheries, yet, we take the fall with restrictions that are biologically unsound. We have spent alot of hours this last year talking and fishing (on the Columbia and at Wind River), and I am aware that you have a degree in fisheries biology. Please keep getting the truth out there. It speaks volumes compared with the pablum the NMFS and ODFW are spoon feeding us.

[Vic Carrao]

The same goes on here in BC, it's much easier to managed anglers than fish. They make poor decissions on fisheries then try to correct it by managing anglers instead of correcting the problem.

A prime example is the spot closure of the Fraser in 1999. They closed it after 8 days to Sockeye fishing because of Native politics. The only other river in the area that had good numbers of fish at that time was the Harrison. So what happens is everyone goes from the Fraser to the Harrison, well the Harrison is only a few miles long compared to the Fraser which has hundreds of miles of fishable river.

Now we have a problem with over crowding on the Harrison which now becomes a angler managment issue. If they would have just delt with the Natives in the first place the problem would have never been there. Same ols **** just another place.

[chuck 'n' duck]

Money controls government. That should be no big surprise to anybody. Whoever has the most money gets what they want through interest groups. Our lack of monetary representation is precisely why the sport fisherman has been the focus of "salmon recovery plans".

I think you hit it on the head Dave, when you said that restricting sport angling is a ploy to pull the wool over the public's eyes. To most of the public, the sport fisherman is the most visible obstacle to fish survival. Rarely does the average person venture out to a remote stream to see the habitat degradation that is done by logging or even a nearby stream to evaluate the impacts of urban encroachment. We sportfishermen are simply the easiest and most visible target.

It is nice that sportfishers have a voice now with the Northwest Sportfishing Alliance. However, we can yell as loud as we want with our "voice", but you must realize that money does the talking in politics. Until we have large monetary backing to support and elect officials that are truly dedicated to restoration and rehabilitation, we are going to see the erradication of many native salmon/steelhead/trout stocks in the Northwest.

[David Johnson]

You're all right about the money that talks to the politics.

NSIA is making some inroads. There are a lot of companies contributing to them (Luhr Jensen, Fisherman's etc.

Indaviduals can also get membership.

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[Deleted User]

Wildhawg, David, and others that have recently joined this BB, and thus may have missed it, the truth of what is going on, in detail, is well outlined in the extensive letters I've written to our Congressman concerning the NMFS allocation criteria which are grossly unfair to us sportfishermen. I got a letter back from Senator Gordon Smith of Oregon in which he claimed that he will see to it that the NMFS gives fair consideration to us sportfishermen in the upcoming 2001 Columbia Spring Chinook fishery, in which a huge excess hatchery return will put the number of fish expected to return at 364,000 fish! At present the NMFS, under pressure from the Columbia Intertribal Fish Commission, is trying to again stick us with a paltry 0.5% ESA impact on this run while giving the Indian gillnetters an 8.5% ESA impact. I re-wrote Senator Smith asking him to give us outlined details of current status of the ongoing NMFS negotiation hearings, and what he is doing to fulfill his assurances to us of a fair allocation. We are awaiting his second response, and the first response from other Senators. They have been alerted that many thousands of votes hang in the balance based on their accountable representation of N.W. sportsmen! This will extend to other N.W. fisheries allocations as well. ... There is another problem here playing a very big role against us .....

YOU! How many of you responded to my important suggestion for sending lots of letters to our Congressmen in support of our rightful opportunities to fish? Starting specifically about the rediculous allocation the "Unfair Pair" (NMFS & Col. Tribes) are trying to stick on us again next spring? ... See what I mean?!? ... Major lazy appathy among sportfishers is why we are getting the short and unfair end of it! Sadly, it seems most of you would rather tie up some hook leaders or watch TV for a half hour than write your Congressmen. I have given you examples of what to write and Jen has put up an e-mail and snail mail link to all Congressmen and others of influence on the Ifish mainpage. It has been handed to you and made easy. Yet .....? http://www.ifish.net/forum/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif http://www.ifish.net/forum/images/graemlins/mad.gif . Just my single letter has gotten us somewhere with one of our Senators to go to bat for us. What would really get their attention and get them moving in our direction is LOTS (hundreds at least) of letters protesting improper fairness and demanding fairness. We can no longer say to ourselves "let someone else do it, what will one more do?". I will bring those example letters up to the top of the BB once again for you to read and respond to. If you don't, never whine about your lack of fishing opportunity, you will not have earned the right! ... David, I mailed copies of my letter, and Sen. Smith's reply letter back to me, over to Liz Hamilton, leader of NSIA (actually, I think it stands for National Sportfishing Industry Association). Have they done anything to encourage writing campaigns? Since you are a member, and a guide who could greatly benefit from more fair fish allocations for sportfishers, have you written any letters to our Congressmen? If so, will you post them right away for another example of what can be written by our members? Letters should be sent pretty soon. Thanks. - RT

http://www.ifish.net/forum/images/graemlins/blush.gif EDITED http://www.ifish.net/forum/images/graemlins/blush.gif



[This message has been edited by RT (edited 12-17-2000).]

[HOGTIDE]

O.K. guys, you have your assignment. I want a minimum of 250 words, single spaced, #14 in New Times Roman. There will be a 10% grade deduction for the first three days...oh,... geez. I forgot I was on vacation...and this assignment is for ME! O.K., I'm on it.


... does spelling count???

No...Seriously,. I'm writing.

[Deleted User]

Thanks Hog. When you get back to your classroom how about an exercise in political process for your students? Maybe have them write some letters to Oregon Congressmen about this allocation process? Maybe sent all at once in a big manila envelope would really be attention getting? Proper spelling can't hurt, but it's the written message that counts. And of course it's numbers that count too. Big numbers of letters sends a big message. The politicians know we vote. And they know that a few hundred letters are strongly representative of constiuency mindset.

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Know fish or no fish. - RT

[fishhead5]

Need the info on how to join the nsia
thanks
fishhead5

[fishhead5]

Need the info on how to join the nsia
thanks
fishhead5

[David Johnson]

R.T.,

NSIA does incourage members to write letters. They keep us very informed on what is going on and email us letters, infoe etc. I have emailed some letters fallowing forms provided by NSIA but I have not written any and snail mailed them myself. I go to most meetings I possibly can, any tiem am in town. I regularly convers with other guides and we let our points be known to the Fish Comision. We will be active again this spring.

For those of you who need info on NSIA you can email them at: NSIALIZ@aol.com

David Johnson

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[HOGTIDE]

RT,

Second Semester Project. Define a environmental issue that impacts lifestyle culture or economy, locally. Research possible causes and impacts.Contact government agencies and representative bodies to see how the issue is being handled, presently. Propose and project possible solutions. Present them to an authoratative body, requesting a response.

It's part of the curriculum!

[Hoosier Daddy]

I mentioned something similar to this in a reply to David's post last week about Clackamas Springers. I think the quiet voice fishemen have had for a lot of years is precisely why we always get hammered. Except for folks like David and other guides (and maybe some other exceptions) most of us don't depend on sportfishing for any kind of living, so it's harder to make a case than if we were facing not being able to feed our kids. That kicks in too. In the vast majority of cases, sportfishing doesn't make much of a dent in the total population, except when you consider that we usually get access to the fish after everyone else has already taken theirs. So naturally, we get the smallest/remaining chunk, and if somebody screwed up or didn't fight hard enough earlier on, we take it in the shorts. So my point is, if spawning gravel is poor, in-river survival is poor, downstream migration for juveniles is shot, fish get chopped up in dams, eaten by ********* er pikeminnow or terns, die in the estuary, fall prey to drift nets, get caught by the gillnetters, commercial charters, etc. , what does that leave when they make their last hurrah and we finally get our chance at harvesting them? Not a lot, both in numbers and in what share we get of the total pie. So, yeah, we need to write letters, join GOOD organizations, etc. and make sure people know we still want these fish around, and we don't want to be the only ones missing out on opportunities.

As a related topic, how many of us would be willing (assuming someone had the balls to make the decision) to give up all of our fishing, completely for one or two generations, if all other harvesters would do the same? Yeah I know it ain't gonna happen, but humor me. I think we have to be willing to say we will go that far if it comes to that, to prove anglers are in it for the long haul.