Would you pay?

[David Johnson]

Would you pay to fish with a guide if you were going to have to release a hatchery fish? (or maybe you wouldn't even pay for a guide?)

Many people actually think that they are helping the fish by releasing these fish.
They are all hatchery fish.

Don't get me wrong, I don't mind releasing fish personally. I release more steelhead than I take home, both hatchery and wild.

Two years ago they closed the Columbia River for up river brights. Most of the public thought they were doing something good for the fish. A good friend of mine that fishes the Columbia near Bonneville tracked down a NMFS Biologist that would talk to him. When he finally got down to the bottom line, by closing that fishery they were protecting something like 8.5 Snake River chinook. He asked out of that how many would actually make it to the spawning grounds. He was told 2.5 fish.

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[Hoosier Daddy]

What if it was the last 2.5 fish?

[Shannon]

I live in Eastern Oregon and the Steelhead and Salmon fishing is poor. Salmon fishing is closed and we saw about ten spawning out on the Ronde this year. After the curtains of terminal tackle dam after dam these runs get depleted vastly. Everything plays a role so why not take it out on the sportsfishers and guides from further restrictions. Thats the way NMFS plays it. After all, our license and tags are already money in their pockets. As long as I live here my 4 year old will never get to see the day to catch a Salmon in these waters, well at least legally. Each year there are more sportsfishers and more guides to accomodate. All the Steelhead that are coming up this way get hammered in the Snake so by the time the run arrives here it's nothing. I have to go to the Valley to catch Salmon. Everybody has the finger pointing at the Dams or the Gillnetters or us Sportsfisherman. It kind of makes you wonder when our regs will begin looking like Alaskas.

Take care.

[Hookset]

Welcome to the board David!!

To answer your question, no, I wouldn't pay just for catch and release when it's hatchery fish your releasing. Just doesn't make sense. Hatchery fish are there to keep and take home, it's a consumptive fishery. I've seen lots of people on guided trips and have talked to a number of guides, everyone or least almost everyone really wants to bring something home, helps justify the expense of the trip.

Since your business depends on attracting and retaining people willing to spend money to catch fish, you need to be able to keep those hatchery fish. I know I would like a occasional fish. This is really a hard pill to swallow, to bad we're being forced to accept these unfair regulations.

Personaly, I really don't see anything changing concerning the dams. When the headlines on the front page of the paper suggest a possible power blackout during extreme cold snaps and California is purchasing excess power during last summers heat wave........it would be political suicide to suggest removing dams and not very good business sense for the power companies.

We really need to at least find some middle ground that is reasonable. Or you might have to start looking for another line of work and I another hobby, maybe golf, seems to be really popular right now.

hook

[Snagly]

I've only fished for hatchery steelhead (in No. Cal.) a few times. I used a guide for a day. He told me at the outset that he was mainly a C & R guide and asked what I wanted to do. Why? He was prepared to take me to "his" spots on a small river. He felt that if he hit these places sufficiently hard, if even a couple of fish a day were kept it would be detrimental to other clients' catching experiences later on in the year.

If I wanted to keep fish, he'd stil guide me but he wouldn't take me to his 'secret' spots. I like eating fish, too, but I much prefer catching them. So I said "C & R" is OK with me.

As it so happened, I caught a 5lb unclipped fish (among others) -- he called it for the first native he's seen out of the Feather River in seven years of guiding. So that fellow was going back in any event.

Sounds like it's not a matter of choice where you guide, so people should be doubly understanding.

[RichH]

I fish with guides several times every year. My personal bias is that I would rather c & r most of the time. My main reason for fishing with a guide is to learn something new or just to get out without the hassle of doing all of the boat work myself. I have access to both a driftboat and a sled so I get the opportunity to fish a variety of ways. I also guided in the early to mid 90's. That said, I would have to agree with Dave on the keeping fish issue. Most people that use guides are on their 1-6 annual trips to fish and want to take something home. If they can't, they don't want to fish. Thats why I love fishing late February thru March so much and I'm kind of bummed about the broodstock prgrams. When most people can't kill something, they stay home. http://www.ifish.net/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif

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Rich H

[SSPey]

Yes, I'd pay for C&R on hatchery fish under certain conditions. It has gotten so bad in some rivers that hatcheries are needed just to keep fish in the river (as opposed to hatcheries that have been used to "up" fish numbers over natural levels, which we know doesn't work). Hatchery programs have been proposed as one way to help rejuvinate spawners in depressed or extinct runs of fish. In those rivers, I believe that hatchery fish should not be taken - they are the future. I always have practiced C&R on wild native fish of any species (a personal decision) and if there is an effort to jumpstart a run with hatchery fish, yes, I'd C&R on them too.

I've never paid for a steelhead guide (got a driftboat and my own schedule, fun is where you find it, fish are a bonus), but I've paid for guides when saltwater fishing cuz I don't have a seaworthy boat, and that was C&R and that was OK by me.

[THE REEL HEY_YALL]

Only us true fishermen know how to catch that last .5 fish. You have to change tactics around. http://www.ifish.net/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[PeterMac]

I know that it is cheaper to feed my family fish by going to safeway, but there is something instinctual for me about going out and catching / shooting food for my dinner table. I enjoy to hunt and gather. I would not pay for catch and release of hatchery fish. It does the fishery no good, and I like to eat them. That is why they are there.

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If you think old growth forests are beautiful, you should see the lumber they make!!

[Phish_on]

How do guarantee that these are hatchery fish if they are not marked?

I would rather keep catching fish than kill my limit and have to quit. But I agree that hatchery fish should be harvested, I will kill one every chance I get.

The primary reason I would pay for a guided trip would be to learn techniques on a particular body of water. Ideally, I would want to release a whole bunch and eat one or two. So I guess I would be most inclined to pay for a trip somewhere where that was possible.

But trout fishing on the Deschutes is a good example. I know right up front I'm not keeping any fish that I'm lucky enough to land ... frankly just being there flailing the water is all I need!

[CZ]

I would rather go on a guided trip where I can keep hatchery steelhead and salmon. At the same time, 7 or 8 months out of my year are spent catch and release fishing for trout and summer steelhead. So I think the actual keeping of the fish isn't the most important aspect of fishing. A good point was made - it is always cheaper to go and buy fish at a store, if the meat is the end result you want. With that said, I hope we always have the option of keeping finclipped fish!

I don't know all of the facts, but I do have to assume there is a reason for releasing those unclipped springers. Even if it is protecting a very small run of wild fish, I think it's worth it. If they were born in the river, and now naturally spawn in the river, they are too valuable for future wild runs and should not be killed. Even if it takes an imperfect catch and release system to protect them, I say we do it. Keep the finclipped fish and take pictures of the other ones before they go back in the water.

[Tanner]

I agree with Phish on this one. The only reason I would EVER pay for as guide is to learn a new stretch of river with some tricky water in it or a new technique. I have no problem killing a few clippers a year , but to tell you the truth, I am not a big fish eater.
Watching a fish swim away after I have Caught, REVIVED and Released it is to me an awesome sight.
Phish had a real good point. If the fish you caught isn't clipped, how do you know if it is a hatchery fish or a native. Personally, I would have a real hard time killing any fish that was not clearly a hatchery fish.

On another note,
I have seen it time and time again fishing the upper Nestucca for Nate's. People catch them and release them, but don't put a whole lot of energy into reviving them. It is very important that we all take extra care in reviving any fish before releasing. I hold onto that fish until I can't hold him anymore.

[This message has been edited by Tanner (edited 12-15-2000).]