Thoughts on the "world class" John Day River

[gabej]

Here is my official opinion about the John Day. My opinion was formed after a second trip to Cottonwood Bridge yeilding tons of fish...all about 10 inches.

There is nothing world class about this river. I was catching truckloads of small smallmouth bass two days ago as raft after raft of fisherman were coming in from the Clarno to Cottonwood float. Every fisherman I spoke with said that he was dead tired of catching smallmouth. Small smallmouth. Sure, every now and then someone would tell me the story of the beautiful 17 incher. I didn't speak with a single person who caught more than 2 nice fish. That's rediculous. If I catch 40 smallmouth on the Columbia, there's a damn good chance 6 of those fish will be 17 inches or bigger. Probably one in the 20+ range.

I have now caught 60+ smallmouth on the JD and one was a little over 17 inches. I have fished the narrows twice and around Cottonwood twice. I'll stick to the Columbia, you can have your "world class" fishery.

Is there anyone out there of the opinion that the John Day is better than the Columbia for smallmouth?

Gabe

[raptorschild]

Ummmm....i've heard reports of 40+ fish days there, and i know of a river where i can guarantee 80+ fish per rod per day with quite a few fish going over 15 inches. So from my point of view, yes the john day is very overated, but then again i've never fished it, and i'm just going off reports of people saying they "slayed em" and only caught 25 in a day.

At River X, I have caught WAY more big fish by wading and casting into little pocket water, and structure, in very public places, then i have by floating the river on a pontoon boat in the most remote places. i think if you float and cast, you will miss alot of big fish, and the hungry little ones will be all over your stuff way before the big ones have a chance to bite unless you dunk it right on there head.

[gabej]

My 40 fish days are more like 40 fish mornings. About 1 pm I'm so sick of catching little fish I quit. I don't care about numbers at all. A 3 fish day with 2 nice fish is better than a 40 fish day with no nice fish.

[1bigfish]

Gabe,
I can't speak for the Cottonwood Bridge area, but there are bigger fish to be found in the narrows. The JD can be hit or miss. I have had more then my share of 17inch fish out of the JD at times.

If you ever decide to give the river another chance, here is my advice. First try fishing in the spring. In my opinion, the bigger fish move out to the CR during the summer. Second is change how you are fishing. Next time you are fishing (anywhere) and you are catching lots of fish pay attention to the smallmouth you are reeling in. There is usually a bigger fish following your fish in. When I fish this area with my partner we use a team method of fishing. When one person has a fish on the other will cast right on top of the fish that is hooked. Many time there is a bigger fish just waiting under the smaller hooked fish. This style of fish will produce larger fish.

[Dave Smith]

gabej: Of course it's massively overrated by the "guides", that is what makes the world go round. You are going to hear about 6 pound fish all the time and I wonder how many (if any) true, weighed 6 pounders have ever come out of there. However, alot of people who otherwise seldom get to catch any fish have a blast there! If you want true, 100 fish days, there are places for that such as the Snake River, but you are obviously not a numbers guy and more power to ya. If you are a trophy guy, you are waisting your time on the Willamette, Columbia, Callipooya, Thomas Creek, Muddy creek, Santiam, basically any water that is moving. If you want a big, fat, broad-shouldered, HEALTHY and pretty smallmouth you need to be fishing lakes such as Washington in WA, Henry Hagg in OR, or Trinity in CA.

[gabej]

I would argue that the Columbia has trophy fish. In fact, I used to work for ODFW as a creel sampler and my boss often spoke of state record smallies being shocked in the Columbia on a regular basis. I personally have caught numerous 5lb fish on my stretch of the river. I have never had the opportunity to lake fish for SMB, but the giant resevoirs in the columbia are kind of like lakes :smile:

Gabe

[Mr. Sturgeon14]

to me it is one of the best places to small mouth fish. This is my very strong opinion. Every single time i have done three day drifts down that river fromn service creek to twikenham we have had 100+ fish days ever day and at least ten of those fish are over 17 inches and we fly fish for them. we usually get one in the 20+ range for almost each of us during the thre days. I think our biggest fish was around 24 1/2 inches. i could definitly say that the river could hold a new oregon state record. we have had bigger fish that were lost. as for the johnday i can say almost the same about the umpqua where you catch a few less fish but the average size is bigger around 12" where in the johnday it is 8-10". but what i love is brownlee reservoir where you never catch a bass smaller than 12" and the average is 15" and many in 18". Oh and to my knowlage smallmouth bass were meant to be a river fish. Just my :twocents:

[BuKuBass]

gabej is correct; there aren't any
Citation Class smallies (http://www.in-fisherman.com/interactive/trophy/ma2003/index7.html)
in the John Day. Stay over on the wetside and leave those puny SM for me. BWaaHaHa.

[gabej]

BuKuBass,

That's an impressive list. Do you think those fish are caught above the narrows?

I am willing to concede that the section of river that I can get to might not be representative of the whole river. I guess the fishermen I spoke with that had floated didn't know what they were doing. It just seems odd. I fish the columbia like crazy and the Snake once a year. That's all I have to compare the John Day to.

I would like to agree that smallmouth seem better fitted to rivers as opposed to lakes.

[1bigfish]

Here is a hint on where these fish were caught.

Look at the names on the list of "Citation Class Smallies" in the above post and compare it to the 2003 list on this site.... johndayriverfishing.com/trophy (http://http://www.johndayriverfishing.com/trophy.htm)

There are a reason that the fish made it to the "Citation Class Smallies" list. Think about it. When was the last time you submitted one of your fish to any national list.

But all of the list aside, I can say the bigger fish are there both above and below the narrows. How many and how big? Well you will just have to keep fishing till you find out. How many big smallies did you get on your first 4 trips to the CR?

But like BuKuBass said I have no problem if you just leave those "dinks" for me. :smile:

[Dave Smith]

gabej, I didn't say there weren't any trophy sized fish in the Columbia. I said, if youre a trophy guy you are waisting your time there and that is true. Your chances of running into a BIG smallmouth on the Columbia are pretty close to Powerball odds and then getting it to eat your lure, and then, what's it going to look like? Most of them look like the typical river runners: dull colors, dull barring, torn fins, skinny and starving. If you guys knew the weights of those 20 inchers out of the John Day, sad. If you put your mind to it, you could catch a true trophy in Hagg before this week is over. They are big and healthy and gorgeous. They're tough but they're not impossible for the determined and patient. River fisherman are the most hopeful and most optomistic of any bass fisherman, always convinced that there is a 7 pounder right around the bend, yet the river almost never oblidges- there is a reason for it. If smallmouth were "meant to live in rivers", you better tell God, because he seriously goofed in alot of their original range in the NE. Brook trout were meant to live in streams, too, but build a beaver dam on one and see how they finally get a chance to grow..........
Dave

[SCUTZ ZA]

In two weeks I will be taking my 4th trip in the last 4 years. I do the trip for many reasons. I like to catch fish, I like the physical and mental challange, and I like the remote and rustic feeling of the float. Up until last year my biggest fish was about 18 inches. Last year I lucked out and while bringing in a 12+/- incher he spit out my lure and big mamma was waiting to pick up the pieces. a couple minutes later I had my first official 22+ inch JD smallie. This one fish will keep me going back year after year. After I photo and released, I told myself that I would be back to catch her again. The cool thing is having my buddy video tape the fight and the fish... When I prepare my future trips with friends and family I just show them the tape. I believe the phrase "World class" is refering to the whole expierience. This is a trip I will do until I cant, or until it gets too over crowded.

[AlseaAssassin]

If you want to catch trophy size smallmouth on the John Day bring your cold weather gear and nut-up because your going to have to be there in late March through early May. After the water temps increase the little guys metabolism kicks in enough to jump all over your grub before the hogs can mess with it. Upsize your baits too, went to a 6 inch sluggo last April and got 3 over 17" and one around 21". Those were the only fish I caught that trip but they were big. I think early spring is the time to go though, sure you can get them in the summer but when the waters cold only the big guys really have to feed to keep up with their metabolism, Q10 my fisheries friend. Columbia has way more trophies in it though, shocked from St. Helens to the Hanford and saw more 20+ inchers than I can remember.

[Knot in leader]

Give me Umpqua :smash:

[DinoHunter]

Insert Can of Worms!!!
All the small fish are a reason to keep all of these 8-11" fish. If everybody kept 5 a day one might think that would make an impact. Biologist are now saying "Catch and Keep" within certaing criteria to help bolster size of fish to include the forbidden kept trout caught by a fly fisherman and god forbid one keeps a bass. mmmmm great fried.
:cheers:

[Dave Smith]

Aaaamen to that, Dinohunter. When I went to Oxbow I saw this sign talking about how it's a managed fishery- I think it even said something about a trophy fishery but that can't be??. Anyway, I was thinking how much these fish could benefit from having about two-thirds of their brethren gently released into a vat of hot oil. Most of the over 100 fish we caught were coughing up crawdads- how many crawdads can there possibly be? The NW, especially NE Washington, is getting overrun with runt smallmouth. There is an inbalance. These are like the put and take hatchery trout fisheries for trout fisherman. They might be good because they appeal to the masses, but it's nice to have a few true trophy fisheries, too.

[dragon67]

The best thing about smallies on the JD is that you can eat them and not glow in the dark.lol

[grantfish]

+++++++++++++++Whats better+++++++++++++++++++
a 100+ fish day of small bass on the JD

or a couple of pretty big fish on the JD
FISH 4 LIFE

[TroutGirl]

"River fisherman are the most hopeful and most optomistic of any bass fisherman"

HA.

Well, I floated the JD two weeks ago and had a grand time. Yes they were all little uns. But, it was a spectacular float with gorgeous scenery. Had great friends, wonderful food. I caught alot of little fish. I missed the take on even more little fish. I put them back, because I didn't feel like cleaning fish when we already had our dinner taken care of.

I thought it was world class becuase of how gorgeous it was and the fun of the few little rapids, great people, and lots of fish. Not overrated to me. I'll let ya'll be competitive fisherman anyday, just leave me be with my fishing pole in a beautiful place. There is nothing finer.

[IRONMAN]

The JD is all about the time of year you fish it if you want to catch HOGS. It is also the locations and how to access parts of the river others rarely fish. The other key is to know what type of gear to use to increase your odds on big fish and avoiding the smaller fish. I have been fishing the JD for about 20 years and rarely see another fishermen and always have 100 fish days with plenty of 2 to 4 lb fish. It is real easy to just fish with what is catching alot of fish AKA grubs. Move to bigger top waters or divers to target bigger fish. Don't be afraid to put on some huge Crawdad colred divers that are normally for largemouth. Big fish like big bait!!! There is NO QUESTION the JD is an incredible Smally fishery. Try some new tactics if you don't want to catch small fish. The other key is MARCH,APRIL,AUGUST SEPTEMBER.I will also end this saying I have a blast just catching fish after fish in mid summer just because of the awsome seanery your in. Good Luck.

[Dave Smith]

he so didn't just say "Hog" and "John Day" in the same sentence- he he.

[Walleyed]

Well the best Guide I know loves the JD. ME!
I guide 6-10 year olds and am always the king of the trip.
If I’m wanting to get kids hooked on fishing then there isn’t any better place.
More then once a kid was fishing for bass and hooked a catfish the size of there leg.
Now thats bragging right all the way around.
Every fishery has it's purpose.

[elklaker]

I used to live in the area around Spray and fish the JD many times and the one factor that produced big fish was when the water was clear either before or after the spring rains are done and the river is clear. Try using hammered silver spoons (steelies) they have produced many 15" plus bass for me in the exact area you were complaining about. Once you've caught a few of those in an afternoon and enjoyed the quietude of that area you will understand why it's considered World Class.

[iampapajack]

:yeahthat: What Walleyed said.....I take mt grandkids up the JD and keep them busy . By the way I've seen some monsters near the straits while on the drift, If I can see um you can catch um. I prefer winter chromes on the JD and summer boating fun.... :twocents: