gimme a break

[sgs]

Closing the Sandy r. to fishng would really **** people off. One issue that makes me mad is that it is always the sport fisherman that pays for the problem. In all of the ideas mentioned to bring back the fish to the sandy, there was nothing said about protecting the headwaters nor keeping the nurserymen from polluting the river. Who would doubt the damage being done from all the chemical run-off from the nurseries above the sandy? How about getting rid of the secret night time Columbia river gilnet seasons? With all the destructive forces out there affecting the salmon health it just seems stupid to go after the sports fishermen. I think it comes down to politics. Ya' think industry puts some money in odfw's back pocket to keep them quite? Closing the sandy to sportfishing could bring about the temptation for non-violent vigilante action on the part of anglers in this area? We can't sit still for this while the government fails to address the real issues destroying our fish runs. Preventing the sport fishermen from killing a few hundred steelhead every winter is not the answer to bringing back our fish.

[garyk]

SGS -- You're right to be outraged but direct it at the right target. ODFW has no control over land practices and resulting pollution; especially non-point run-off. You are correct in that it is political. Here in ORegon, you have a Republican Legislature thats hostile to most conservation efforts and controlling pollution.

The election is coming. Focus your rage beyond this bulletin board and vote for candidates who support fish and conservation. Encourage your fishing buddies and family to do the same.

The Gov. is darn good, but the Republicans largely thwart his efforts.

Did you know Ted Ferioli (Rep. Hood River)wants to take away the public's right to wade/anchor in rivers? The Steelheaders have been leading the fight on this issue - are you a member?

[Deleted User]

IMHO:

Right on Gary! It has become so obvious what the GOP agendas are, regardless of their campaign wool-over-the-eyes lying. They put after tax corporate and wealthy individual profits above all else, then worry about what can be done for the real problems facing the majority of people and the Earth's environment. Too many voters are just gullable, even head in the sand, to their wealthy constiuent enabled big-time campaigning strategies. They also try to buy the election with the promise of a tax cut carrot that will be minor for everyone but the very wealthy, thus making the cost of living go up more to wipe out the middle class tax cuts. Why can't people get themselves educated to the issues and study meaningful data and Party voting track records, instead of so easily being bought off by the expensive ring wing conservative campaign machine?? Those state and federal Repubs elected by that means are tied to the puppet strings of wealthy constiuents and will vote against the best interests of fish and the environment a majority of the time (that's a proven fact); and conversely vote in favor of big biz and more advantages for the wealthy than they already have. They will also tell you that the Demos will take your guns away trying to get more votes. That isn't gong to happen! And that's the real truth! -- Please excuse the political rant; it gets to me pretty easily. I told myself I was going to cut down on this stuff, and I will, at least after the Nov. elections. I will try not to read rich guy's rebuttle posts http://www.ifish.net/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif . - Steve

[Steve]

So now you want a Clinton clone in office, Gore has reinvented himself so many times he used to get a A and B from the NRA but now an F- on gun control....I wouldn't vote for him on that one issue alone....LEAVE THE BILL OF RIGHTS ALONE...too many brave men and women have given their lives to protect them...It isn't a BILL OF PRIVILAGES...To a select few.. Only one will win Bush or Gore...Vote GOP for GUN RIGHTS.........

[Deleted User]

Can't help it http://www.ifish.net/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif . Read my lips: your guns won't get taken away! Even if the Demos tried to do that (and they won't because challenging the constitution would be politically damaging to themselves) such an attempt would wind up in the Supreme Court where your constitutional rights will win out! So relax on that bullsh*t. It's not a real issue, just another GOP lie to win scare votes. - I'm not a great Gore fan. In fact I would vote for Ralph Nader if it weren't in affect taking away votes from Gore and giving a better chance for GWB to get elected. And if you claim Gore has reinvented himself a number of times I can guarantee you that it hasn't and never will be to invent himself as a clone to Bubba! Give us a break! And how many times has GW (Bush) reinvented himself trying to get votes from target demographics? Just like all politicians, LOTS. When political debates arise, why do some sportsmen keep clinging to "the sky is falling" gun reasoning to stand behind Bush and avoid the obviouly correct points I've made above?!? ...... Nevermind, we know why. - RT

[garyk]

Steve -- If you do care about fish, and from all your posts I know you do, I don't see how you can overlook Bush's poor conservation record and that of the NW Republicans who've been primarily pushing him - Slade Gorton and Gordon Smith.

But this thread isn't/wasn't about the US Presidential race. It's about local, Oregon politics. And those are the politics and resulting votes, bills, and decisions that impact your ODFW, Ore. State Police enforcement, DEQ pollution control efforts, land use planning (or non-planning) and on and on. SO MANY OF THE ITEMS THAT PEOPLE ON THIS FORUM SAY NEED TO BE CHANGED FOR THE BENEFIT OF SALMON.

But so few folks pay attention to the local races and the result is we get a bunch of bums in Salem. I.E. Ted Ferioli, here's guy that tries to take away your rights to wade & anchor in rivers and he's still standing for re-election. He would not have taken that action if he thought it would cost him his office. But too few people pay attention, and so Ferioli nearly gets away with it.

[RW]

garyk; you hit the mark dead on!!! why don't you start a new thread and talk about the legislative races going on. btw, today is the last day to register to vote. unless you educate yourself and vote, you have no right to b***h.

[SSPey]

Recently EPA passed regulations to control non-point source runoff - don't know when they'll take effect - but the're meant to target farmers, nutrient runoff, pesticides, that sort of thing. Unfortunately some forms of agriculture are EXEMPT from many of these regulations, most notably wood agriculture (timber). Business as usual. I'm not sure where nurseries fit into this scheme - can you please explain what the nurseries are doing?

[Deleted User]

Thanks again Gary, for another good post. (BTW, the Steve he is refering to is the "Steve" from Estacada; not this Steve/RT). I agree that the state elections are every bit as important, probably even more important, for our fish and enviroment than the Pres elect. Slade Gorton (Repub./WA) and Gordon Smith (Repub./OR) do fit the track records of GOP voting in favor of big biz and against things that will help the fish and environment! NW State rep.s from the Demo party, such as Sen. Ron Wyden and Rep. Peter DeFazio vote in favor of middle class poeple and the environment. Check out their voting records for concrete varification. BEFORE you vote! - RT

[Scarecrow]

Come on, you guys! Do you really believe there is a "Good Guy" - "Bad Guy" situation in our presidential candidates? Both have serious shortcomings. You can rant and rave at each other about Bush or Gore from now till Christmas and never, never get the other person to change their minds. Seems like a exercise in frustration to me! (However it does make me chuckle to see it. In fact it causes me to ROFLMAO, I hope I never grow up either).

------------------
Bob G.

[Deleted User]

Bob, you may be right about not changing very many people's minds. But our fishing and environmental future is no laughing matter! And if you read the above posts and do some followup varification reading, you will see a huge difference in how the party's will measure up on those important issues! - RT

[sgs]

I appreciated your comments garyk.

[garyk]

Taking RW's advice, if you're concerned about ORegon fisheries, please at least take a look at the Oregon League of Conservation Voters website at www.olcv.org (http://www.olcv.org) You can view summaries and votes on specific bills.

Check out how your ORegon LEgistlature representative and senator voted on fish-related bills. For example, I've just learned that my senator, Sen. Hartung who represents parts of westside Portland and Columbia County had three chances to vote for salmon. Each time he voted against salmon. How many westside anglers are there? How many will hold Hartung accountable and vote him out next month?

If you think your vote isn't important - you're wrong. Many state races are decided by just a couple dozen votes. In many districts, one additional group of concerned anglers would have changed the outcome.

[RW]

O.K. garyk decided not to open a new topic so here goes. i don't like the oregon league of conversation voters, they are TOO GREEN. there can and is a happy medium... my nod for state senator in my district is ryan deckart, not eileen quitip, sorry quitub. he is moderate, young, agressive, doesn't vote just party line. he is an outdoorsman (quitub has never even mowed her own lawn i bet) that fishes and white water rafts. your vote does count, don't ever forget that. my two cents. RW

[garyk]

RW, I believe you make a good choice with Deckart (and thanks for helping to keep this topic on top). I pointed people to OLCV's website not for the endorsements or OLCV's party line, which I never mentioned, but so that they could see how their Legislator voted on the key fish votes.

Looking at the voting record is simply doing 'due diligence' for a concerned voter and/or angler.

You don't have to take anyone's word for anything, be it the NRA, OLCV, or whomever, just let your politicians record speak for itself - then vote accordingly.

The OLCV page is the only one I could find that showed specific fish-related votes. We should certainly thank others for any other links on this topic that they can provide.

[Scarecrow]

RT, You're right of course, it's no laughing matter. It's sad! And so is loosing any of our constitutional rights.

And, we (Reb. or Demo.)in the less populated areas of the country have no meaningful voice in the matter. Much like the fisher men and women have little to say about quota & other regulations pertaining to our fisheries. Or the local residents that have nothing to say about dredging the mouths of rivers and bays that have become filled with sludge and flood almost yearly.

Who makes these regulations? You? Me? I don't think so! It's the politicians who supposedly represent people from the heavy population centers. People who are so frightened of walking in their own neighborhoods that they'll vote for anything to help make them feel safer. There's laws on the books that are not enforced, criminals are free to roam the streets and yet they are trying to enact new laws that will take away more of our freedoms. Don't sound right to me. But, it's good that we can disagree and that we can also disagree with our government! Some governments imprision or even kill people for merely disagreeing.

I read the following today and feel we are truly blessed to be citizens of this country, even with all it's faults.

"So in this political year it is important to remember how lucky we are to live in this country and can vote. Also remember that even though we may not be too excited about our prospects for candidates for president any of them are better than what most countries have". RT, Thanks again for posting this.

We may not agree, but I respect your right to be wrong, (jk).

------------------
Bob G.

[RW]

garyk; where else can we send people to look up voting records? i would love to have a debate of informed ifish members and who they support during these elections. keep up the good work garyk.

[Steve]

I love it, isn't it Great to be an American, we can sit behind these computers and debate or is that Debait. not sure...RT, I am going to be glad when election day finally rolls around and we can get down to some serious fishing....neither candidate has offered to put more water in the rivers...gee guess we need to seek a higher power...I was a Demo. for 25/30 years...C.R.S....but I am tired of the trust govenment we will take care of you attitude...and one size fit all...it fits me too tight...Nothing worse than a reformed Democrat....Go RUSH!

[Deleted User]

You wanted more Gary (garyk) and others:

www.geocities.com/Eureka/Vault/8020/CongressRating.html (http://www.geocities.com/Eureka/Vault/8020/CongressRating.html)

This was a non-partison verifiable study done by a political watchdog group based in Maryland near Wash. D.C. After reading how this study was conducted, then click on the ratings of the 2 Presidentail candidates, and then click toward the bottom for a look at the ratings for all Congressmen. I was not suprized where the chips fell, but I was suprized at just how closely party agendas were followed and to the degree that Gary K, I, and others are onto the GOP (Guppies Only Please) anti-fish/pro corporate agendas! - RT



[This message has been edited by RT (edited 10-12-2000).]

[superfly]

I love it, this is exactly why I am going to run for office someday as an independent or demo, I am far better off now than I ever was under republican rule, the GOP has been F#%*&ng us sportsman over for years, they are about corporations and dividends and there own personal agenda. SH#* I was probably doing dope back in the day that the republicans were importing with the cia to support there covert operations. Much like in wa. how all the republican ******** are all commercial fishing advocates. If it Wasn't for Norm Dicks, (dem) my enhancement group would have been shut down by the tribes , the feds and nmfs, but he was not afraid to get his hands dirty and do what was right and help us restore runs of fish on a number of hood canal streams. Of course you always have your redneck contingent that thinks there going to loose there guns, well guess what guys, it would take many years and a revolution and an act of god before that will ever happen in this country, I am not afraid of that in the least. I served in the millitary as well as a member of the rapid deployment force, after I got there I thought Wow, I could be put in a real bad spot because the presidents rich buddy has a large interest in some small country with an unstable goverment and a rich wealth of natural resources. Figure it out yet. Republicans are all about them selves and there $$$$$ so they can suck my d*#K !!!
Peace Superfly, Vote Demo to save our resources!!!!!!!!

[garyk]

Hello all -- So, we've been posting here about candidates who are good/bad for fish. And we've been discussing sources of additional information (thank you RT for the links you've provided) ESPECIALLY for LOCAL Oregon LEGISLATIVE races. The following message came my way and in the spirit of sharing I'm passing it along, verbatim and unedited.

Vote PRO-FISH!
garyk


In 1998, 5 pro-environmental candidates lost their bids for the State
Legislature by less than 1000 votes each. In some races, it was as close
as 225 votes.

Had these people been elected, we would have seen a very different 1999
legislative session. We might have seen a session that could have produced
protections for Oregon's environment, instead of some of the worst
environmental attacks in Oregon's history.

The worst part of this is that there were well over 1000 pro-environment
voters in each district who did not vote.

OLCV PAC will be working hard in the coming weeks to ensure that this
doesn't happen again, calling environmental voters in key races to remind
them to vote.

But we need YOUR help to make this happen. OLCV PAC is recruiting over 750
volunteers to help call an estimated 37,000 voters to remind them to vote
in the last weeks of October and first week of November.

Help Get Out The Environmental Vote! Sign up to be a Green Voter Captain
at http://www.olcv.org/greenvoter.html.

****************
Political Update
****************

- OLCV Releases Endorsements for November Election

The full list of OLCV endorsements is available online at
http://www.olcv.org/endorsements.html. Find out who got the OLCV nod in
city, county, and state races. There is also a list of ballot measure
endorsements to help you wade through the overwhelming list this year.

Voters in Clackamas, Lane, Lincoln, Marion, Multnomah, and Washington
counties should be sure to check the list of local candidates for city
council and county commission.

- No On 2 & 7 Campaign Faces Uphill Battle

Recent polling shows Measure 7 passing 2 to 1. Measure 2 shows that 30% of
voters are undecided.

The campaign has a message that works but still needs to be communicated to
voters.

Your help is urgently needed! The campaign still needs funds to complete
its media buy. To donate call the campaign or visit the web page.
www.noon2and7.com (http://www.noon2and7.com)

- Oregon United Offers Online Voting Guide

Looking for the facts on the variety of ballot measures? Want to know how
other groups beyond OLCV are rating the measures?

A no-nonsense Voter's Guide is now available Oregon United.org, a volunteer
effort to raise awareness about some of the most threatening measures on
this fall's ballot. Customize the voter guide by adding your group's own
logo--contact webmaster@oregonunited.org for more information.