game violation penalties

[Bait O' Eggs]

I am undecided on an issue and thought I would post it here and get some other opinions to help develop my thoughts on the issue.

When the Game Wardens bust a Snagger or Deer Poacher they confinscate the pole/gun and the vehicle. I guess I dont have a problem with the gun/pole in any way. But the vehicle seems a bit tough. That is where my question lies. Does anybody think losing a $35,000 pickup for snagging a fish or poaching a deer is an excessive penalty?

I have read in the paper where when the police do a hooker undercover bust on 82nd Ave. they also take the vehicle for that bit of expensive loving. http://www.ifish.net/forum/images/graemlins/shocked.gif It seems to me the police could technically take your vehicle for doing 56 mph in a 55 mph traffic corridor. When we loose our vehicle every time a crime is committed, the police will have them all in a few years.

I dont understand the law that allows them to take the vehicle or when they can or cannot tow your car away, but it seems if you try to buy a lady of the night, or snag a fish you lose what ever you are driving at the time. 1965 VW van who cares, a 2000 ford F350 powerstroke crew cab, maybe a bit of a steep penalty for a 4 pound silver.

A flat fee for all seems a little more equal. If it is $2000 or $15000 it would be fairer for all of us. They dont base a speeding ticket on the price of the car you are driving.

Any thoughts?

[wak'm&stak'm]

I agree with you, I work with several that have been busted and all still have their trucks. Everything from spotlighting to killing elk while having no hunting priviledges. But I have heard of some being taken, but do not know them personally. I have gone to police auctions and there were vehicals, but all were from drug busts.
If I was ever heading to 82nd ave or spotlighting I am buying a 67 Datsun, why risk it?

[Fishin Magician]

Does the punisment fit the crime? Good question.In my book "Do the crime do the time"!!!!!!! I have no leiniency on game violations.The fish we fish for and the animals we hunt for are a priveledge and we all know that priveledges can be taken away.The question about the vehicle thing, Maybe its a little overboard for a minor violation but I think a major violation or a repeat offense warrents something like this to get thier attention.They should sell the vehicle and donate the money to riparian repair or habitat repair.What do they do to drug dealers????????? I feel that somebody that breaks a game violation is a thief and a liar and they should pay the price before the rest of us honest people and fish and animals pay the ultimate price!!!!!!

[Phish_on]

It's called "forfeiture", and is a major source of revenue for police agencies. NOTE that your property is taken BEFORE YOU ARE CONVICTED. "Innocent until proven guilty" and all that ...

[Fishmaster]

For those of us who:

1. Do not snag.

2. Do not poach.

3. Do not buy three dollar ho's on 82nd.

4. Do not do drugs.

It really does not seem like much of a problem to me or those who do the above mentioned things.

If you choose to engage in those behaviors, then you have made the decision to roll the dice and take the fall if it comes up snake eyes. What the hell do I care if they lose their ride ?? I won't lose my ride, because I dont' snag and poach. Tough sh-- for them.

[Deleted User]

I agree with you Roy. I hate snagging and poaching so I am for very tough penalties, such as taking away the fishing/hunting license for a couple years plus a 4 figure fine, for a first offense too. Do they really take away a guys expensive vehicle for the above though? There is a number of things wrong with that; number one it would punish an entire family, not just the guilty person. In most cases it doesn't seem to quite fit the crime. Second offense, different story. Just like with drunken drivers, I wouldn't mind at all if a repeat offender was hit super hard! Take the vehicles and license away permanently, along with a 5 figure fine. Maybe even have "Snagger", "Poacher", or "LOOK OUT FOR ME - I DRINK AND DRIVE" tatooed on their forheads for 1 or 2 years before they can have it surgically removed. Even worse for molesters/rapists; all of the above plus years in jail with "Bubba" for a boyfriend, and can only apply for prison probation release if they opt for castration. Excuse wandering off the subject a bit there, but this country needs tougher penalties for most things. Other countries do and they don't have as much crime! - RT

[This message has been edited by RT (edited 10-10-2000).]

[wak'm&stak'm]

Do you think the fines are consistant for everyone? I don't, not even in traffic violations is it fair, the first thing you get asked is where you work and then are told to pay the whole thing NOW. and the less fortunate soul right behind you gets to pay 5 dollars a month on a reduced fine.
I have a Father in law who retired as a state gamewarden and would get real frustrated over a good bust and have it just swept under the rug because you can't punish someone who has nothing to loose.
I wonder just how perfect everyone is, anyone ever kept hunting after your tag was filled, because your party still had unfilled tags, ever shot at a goose ater shooting hours when you can still see, ever run a extra stinger hook, ever keep a fish that was mortally hooked, ever shoot a grouse in the road. The list goes on forever. I bet we all fall short at times, but it is easier to see the straw in your brothers eye than the rafter in our own.

[roadsend]

I have no problem with hammering CONVICTED poachers in any reasonable way. However forfeiture laws allow confiscation of assets from accused or suspected poachers and my understanding is that these assets need not be returned if the person is found not guilty. Why can't we wait until the person is found guilty before we make permanent confiscation? I think there is a ballot measure on this subject in Oregon this year but am not sure. There are too many of them to keep track of.

[Wet_Willy]

Wak'm,
I am by no means perfect, but when it comes to fishing/hunting regulations I just abide by the law. These things are still sports to me and I hope to pass that on to my children and anybody else's children that are with me. I try to make clean kills, fair hook my fish and above all respect the resource. I agree that taking a guy's nice rig is not equal to somebody else's junker monetarily. But I also know that for every rig that is confiscated, 100 other losers get away with poaching of some sort. The problem with fines is that there are a lot of ways around paying them, when they take your rig, it is a done deal...Chances are, if you are driving a junker it is as important to you as the deluxe truck is to its owner...

[Phish_on]

so it's judge, jury and executioner ... vigilante time ! If some cop accuses me of a crime I did not commit, then I am guilty and must be punished ?? How about that thing called the Constitution of the United States of America ?

[mappy]

I was at the ODFW office in Newport yesterday and the OSP had brought in the head of a big mature bull elk they had taken from some poachers in the Stott mt. area. Big, beatiful havy rack. Talking to the officer he said that they estimate that the amount of elk poached each year at least equals the amount killed during the hunting season, and is probably more. Added to this is the fact that less and less big bulls are being seen each year, leading to some thought that unless bull ratios improve, there will be a lottery system instituted in the coast range in the future. My point is, because these a##holes are out poaching elk year round, the law abiding hunters are going to pay the price. This was this poachers second offense, and the officer said he would get probably 30 days in jail, up to a $2500 fine and 2 year revoction of his hunting licence. I say take his truck and house. And his kids so someone can teach them some real values.jk.
This issue kinda hits a nerve.
mappy

[This message has been edited by mappy (edited 10-10-2000).]

[Wet_Willy]

A TWO YEAR revocation of his license?!!!? In the unit that I deer hunt I only draw a tag every two years anyway. This is what I mean. Take something away that means something to these jerks!!!ARRRRGGGHHH!!!

[TheRogue]

Excellent Post...my feelings exactly

[Tanner]

Everyone has been telling me how many fish were in Eagle Creek, so last night I decided to go take a look. YEP there was a lot of fish up there all right. There was also the biggest variety of degenerates that I have ever seen in one place in my life. There were so many dark nasty looking fish laying on the bank that these idiots were keeping. As low and clear as that water is and as much pressure as those fish are gettting, you can not tell me that one of those fish was legally hooked. If the Police were there taking peoples vehicles for snagging. The State would have been able to sell them and generate enough funding to open up a couple of hatcheries. If you couldn't tell already, I have no problem with the current game violation penalties. These guy's need something that is going to make them think twice about repeating their offense. What I saw last night made me absolutely sick. It makes me glad that I am a drift boater and don't have to put up with the combat bank fishing scene anymore.

[wak'm&stak'm]

Well bait O look what you got started, I bet this hasn't answered the your question yet.

tshickam....I feel your frustration, and agree with you. Kinda makes you feel out on a limb at times doesn't it.

I agree with big fines for big crimes, like that elk. That is going to real **** off some guys I know that were hunting that area all archery season.

I about had culture shock in Alaska, in the store you could buy snag hooks, and they had a season that opened in July just for snagging. And some friends were getting their gill net patched up for the subsitance opener in Sept. Also when I was there they did real well on the dip netting for sockeye on the Russian river. I know it's not the same here, but I thought it was interesting how differant it was.

[Trick]

The court's and jails are overun, rapists, molesters, robbers and the sorts are being pushed out onto the streets to make room for the guy smoking a joint...Nobody is afraid anymore of committing crimes because they know that even if they get caught they will get off with a light sentence and fine. RT was right in saying that we need tougher penalties but who is willing to pay for more jails and more officers in the feild? It seems that nobody is willing to pay more taxes for these services and I can understand because I feel over-taxed myself as it is now. I may mess this figure up, but here it goes. 1/10 of the world's population lives in the U.S. and it's holdings, 80% of the world prison population is housed in the U.S.. The whole system needs an overhaul, but where do we start. I feel the fustration, I love my hobbies and I feel like I'm loosing more places to hunt and fish each year. I miss trout fishing on the streams I grew up on because they are closed. I miss the little beaver ponds I used to hike into to fish because the timber companies have locked their gates. I'm tired of paying higher license fees for fewer chances in the feild. Yeah, I get fustrated talking about the problems because I feel that the city dwelling population of this nation doesn't give a rat's ass about our problem, they think were the devil already for hunting the furry brown eyed deer and catching the nice little fishies! We makeup such a low percentage of the voting population when it comes to our issues that we don't stand a chance. Remember the dog hunting ban on Bears and Cougars, who do you think passed that. It wasn't us! We all know that in election issues money buys the outcome in alot of elections. Don't get me wrong, I love our nation and I know overall we have the best damn thing going in the world. We need to start with the small battles and work our way up. Watch each others back and report poachers when you see them. It may not always get you a result but it is a start. The police need our eyes too. http://www.ifish.net/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif http://www.ifish.net/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif http://www.ifish.net/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif http://www.ifish.net/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif http://www.ifish.net/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif http://www.ifish.net/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif http://www.ifish.net/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[TheRogue]

Reality:

Estimated 10000+ hatchery fish coming back to the hatchery. Most of these will be bonked on the head and sold for catfood, fertilizer, whatever. It's pretty tough to justify detailing a high-dollar game officer to chase snaggers of fish that are destined to be throw-away anyway, especially with hunting seasons in full swing.

That's why it's up to fishermen(and women) to police ourselves, as has been said time and again on this board. Names, license plates, video cameras. Enough evidence, and there'll be a good reason for enforcement. Remember the Willamette River hoglines years back? The huge sting operation that went down there? The same thing can happen anywhere, with the right justification to do it.

T.R.