Flossing

[Crusty]

Many years ago (back when corkies were made out of cork) I noticed that I would occasionally land a steelhead or salmon with the hook stuck on the outside of the jaw. I finally figured out that the corky (actually an Oakie Drifter) was floating up the line above the hook on the dead drift (probably due to the weight of the hook/yarn pulling the leader through), and when the fish struck and I hit it, it caused the line to pull through the mouth and stick the fish on the outside. Now that's a pretty boney area so I knew I was probably losing a few fish too either from not feeling many of the hits or not getting hook penetration.

I started pegging the Oakies with a toothpick and my Corkies by jamming the eye of the hook into the body. It not only solved the problem, but it increased my catch significantly.

Here is my point. Most of you know that the bait preceeds the sinker downriver. A long leader increases the lag time between the take and the tactile signal to the fisherman to hit the fish. This give the fish extra time to release the lure before the fisherman is aware that the fish was there. Using a leader longer than the law (18 inches between sinker and hook I think) and conditions call for is a handicap, not an advantage.

In 45 years of steady fishing I have never seen anyone purposely trying this "technique", but if I do I'll probably laugh rather than be offended. Sounds like more of an urban legend than a threat to our fishery.

Crusty


[This message has been edited by Crusty (edited 09-15-2000).]

[Bait O' Eggs]

Crusty
I am going to open a can of worms here http://www.ifish.net/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Flossing is alive and vital. I have to admit when I was younger and dumber I participated in some flossing techiniques. I didnt know it was refered to as flossing at the time. We called it "snagging them in the mouth". Was very effective when we couldnt get them to bite. Should have know by the name something was wrong with what we were doing.

In the fall when the Chinook get in the deep holes of the slow rivers and the water is low and slow, the chinook have to keep moving to get enough water thru their gills in the low oxygenated water. I have watched the pack of fish in a hole swim a circle. We would all set up in the middle of that circle. Several "fisherman" (and I use that word loosely) would cast to the far side of the river. Inline sinker on tubing, hook, small corky and yarn. Had to keep the sinker fairly aerodynamic to get it to slide thru the mouth. Oversized tubing made it easy for the sinker to slide on line at mouth impact. Hold pole out straight and tightlined. When the fish swim their cirle by you, on average 50% of the "fisherman" would get a fish to pick up the line in their mouth at once. Graphite poles help feel this line pick up. Take 3 or 4 big fast steps back followed by the hook set. These big steps slide the line thru their mouth until the hook gets to the fish. We would have 3 or 4 fish on at a time. They would all be hooked in the left or right side of the mouth matching each hooking fest, depending on which way the fish were swimming by us. We had game wardens come down and watch us land fish and say it was close enough to in the mouth. Right in the corner of the mouth from the outside in.

This was years ago and I believe we would would all have forfeited our fishing license under current days of game enforcement. I have seen flossing since my delinquent days, and not all that long ago. Watched a guy do it with a sliding bobber last year. I would have never believed it if he did tell me what he was doing and showed me how he did it. He hooked 4 chinook for my viewing that morning all in the bottom jaw on the outside of the mouth. Put snagging at a new standard.

Their are a lot of things I am not proud of in my younger days. ie) alchohol and driving, flossing, had a nice road sign collection for a while. etc etc... We all grow up some day.

I know you stated you would laugh if you saw it being done. I dont laugh anymore, because I get offended because I know what they are doing. The pack of fisherman at the clackamas mouth, dont need the fish to swim a circle. The fish are holding in the current and they are drifting their line into the fishes mouth. Dont need the big steps, they are fishing close to where they are standing. Been there done that. Grew up and dont much like to tolerate it anymore. I am sure some of the less experienced fisherman feel that line bump and have no idea they slid it into the mouth.

You might call me an urban legand http://www.ifish.net/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif I think I was an idiot for partaking in something that was wrong. Need to play by the rules, what ever they may be. Just have to get the rest of the boys/girls to feel that way.

[Hammer Bob]

Well said BOE. And yes flossing, beading or whatever you want to call it is alive and well in California. You can see it done any day of the week at the Outlet on the Feather River and below Nimbus dam on the American river. These folks use 12-15 ft. leaders with the smallest beads possible with little weight. Again cast into the current and floss the fish...jerk...jerk ...jerks!

[cureless]

Interesting topic I heard tell of one local famous fly fisherperson who could do the same with a flyline. Easy with a sinking line.

(Cureless) Mike

[Bait O' Eggs]

Cureless
I know who you were watching because I to have watched that fly master doing it. I was quite impressed with his technique. I watched him hook over a dozen steelhead in a couple hours one day. Died pheasent feathers were the hot bait of the day I guess. http://www.ifish.net/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Ramstrong]

NO! That Nymph is famous for catching not flossing isn't it? Anytime you want to see fly line flossing go to Eagle creek. Ohhh Yeah, it's in the mouth. Bonk! OSP loves those guys. Like BOE when I was younger and dumber I used to use a spinner to floss fish. Nice sandy bottom, no snags, just cast the spinner, let it tumble, when the line stops, reel until it comes taught and set hook. Not proud of it now, but it did, and does happen. Not to try and justify it, but we were 16 and kept hooking them in the jaw, compared to all the back hooked fish being caught around us the game warden didn't have a problem with it. But I wouldn't do it now.

[Crusty]

Guys,

Apparently I have just lead a sheltered life. Maybe I should keep my eyes open, huh?

Crusty

[Sanddune]

I have seen this "flossing or linning" many times over the years in many coastal rivers.
As Bait'O'Eggs said some is due to inexperence but many know what they are doing. Saw it come boiling to a head last fall just below Jennies at the Logging Bridge Hole. Some of the regulars almost came to blows with two "Sportsmen" who were "custom hooking" fish. Hate to see the tempers.need to keep that at the PC boat ramp http://www.ifish.net/forum/images/graemlins/frown.gif Fortunately in this case the "sportsmen" left because of the comments made to them before something serious occured. Maybe if we handed them a copy of this forum they would see the light and change----- NOT! The power of any kind of hookup is too great.

[Gone Fishin]

Personally, I don't know why you guy's aren't divulging the "great sportsman's" name, I think Jim Teeney is a jerk myself, nothing more than an arrogant fly-snagger!

Sorry Jim, I calls 'em as I see's 'em!

Teeney's a heck of a fly caster, I'll give him that. But, in my book he'll never be a true sportsman. Just an arrogant jerk!

My two cents worth!

[Deleted User]

Power of the internet at work again. Just like with the gillnetter and Indian allocation posts, I think getting the word out will do some good! I have gotten word that the law enforcement afield has become aware of floss snagging fish on the outside of the mouth and are not only intolerant of it now, but are watching for it and giving costly citations for it. As mentioned by other posters, the net is not the only modern technology to use against illegal unethical sportfishermen. Use your cell plones and cam corders to help clean up this problem too! - I feel a little unconfy talking about the flysnagger but can't help to vent a bit too. The first time I met this person, about a quarter century ago, he came up to me on the bank of the Kalama R. during a slow fishing day with the water too clear. He asks how I was doing and I told him no luck. He perks right up how he had already caught over 20 summer steelhead that day using his special nymphs that were just irresistable to the fish. Product promotion understandably. After I heard from others that many of the fish were hooked outside the jaw that left a lasting negative impression. I also always get a kick out of his fish pics with his small frame kneeling down and holding the fish out toward the camera to make 6 lb. steelhead look like 26 lbs. LOL

[Quick Fish]

I'm glad somebody else started this thread. This guy has been one of my pet peeves for a long time. Have you ever noticed that when he catches a 'nook on a fly it's always a dark fish? Has anyone ever seen him catch a bright fish on a fly? I doubt you will because he is always up high on the rivers fishing right on the redds!

(Sorry for the vent)

[Deleted User]

I grew up watching my father snag steelhead when they wouldn't bite naturally (he called it "force feeding") so I'm rather well versed on that technique, although I have only used it once on a school of largish suckers in Eagle Creek. But for some reason I've never heard of this "flossing".

Interesting the stories told about Jim. I've had no experiences with him but if this is his method of fishing then I want no part of him.

Maybe I haven't seen flossing because flossing trout is a feat in itself? http://www.ifish.net/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[parker]

Crusty,

You need to fish on the Kenai River for the reds! There's nothing quite like standing shoulder to shoulder "linning" Reds in the mouth. My favorite "fly" was a bare 2/0 Gammy.

Actually, I only did this for about 4 hours before I was completely bored.

The best part was talking with the Alaskan Natives. They would firmly believe and tell me that these Reds were biting the flies. They really did not like to be told they were just a bunch of snaggers.

Snagging, flossing, linning...it's all the same. Different words for the same basic concept.

Parker

[Crusty]

Parker,

We were driving out of Seward up the bay and I saw a flyfisherman fighting a salmon at the mouth of that first stream. The guy looked like he had just stepped out of an Orvis Catalog. A companion was shooting video of the battle.

He landed it and I took a look at his fly. It was one of those treble hooks with the lead attached that they use there. I always wondered how they edited the tape.

I don't know all of their regulations there, but snagging must be legal in some places. I saw it in that creek in Anchorage proper right in front of everybody.

That had nothing to do with flossing though. That was just flat snagging.

Crusty