Bible Thump' in

[Dullhook]

I know that people at times have questioned my use of Bible passages to back standings and opinions on different issues. Some have called me a "Bible Thumper" or felt that the Bible is a way of ducking or skirting questions. Actually the term Bible Thumper is not offensive to me personally but quite complimentary! :smile:

Please let me explain the reasons for trusting in the Bible.

For many years before letting Jesus into my life (actually it was more of a rescue) I just wasn't capable of controlling things and made a lot of bad decisions, often crucial ones. Outside advice, even if well intentioned, didn't really help much and sometimes made things worse. How very alone and lost we can feel with a bunch of serious problems and no true answers or direction. I think all of us at one time or another have felt overwhelmed. :shrug:

After becoming a re-born Christian I felt much peace but still had a ton of things to deal with. I would lay in bed at night and pray to our Lord for answers. Often I would wake up and have an intense desire to read the Bible. God was answering my prayers! :angel:

I started to research the Bible for answers to all of my questions. It seemed to have simple, definitive ways of dealing with everything: past, present, and future. Pain, illness, finances, family, job, personal relationships. There wasn't anything that couldn't be found in it's pages. Things slowly started to iron themselves out. I still have problems like all of us do, but now have a confident way of dealing with them.

I realize that this might not make sense to some, because it requires faith and the belief that all scripture is "God Breathed". The Bible writers were guided in their writing to go where God wanted them to go and produce what God wanted them to produce.

The Bible is central to Christian life because it's the very life and word of God. We believe that His Word must be received and obeyed as the final authority in all things pertaining to life and Godliness.

I hope this helps explain why some of us rely on the Bible for answers. Personally it's never let me down. I'm not the "brightest light in the harbor" and cherish and need it's guidance. It's like leaning on Jesus, always a loving and unwavering friend!

Thank's for putting up with my rambling. Peace....Dennis :flowered:

[jokester]

No rambling that I can see Dennis. Looks like you're using the right book to me :grin:

Psalm 119:105 "Thy word is a lamp unto my feet and a light unto my path."

-jokester

[BJS]

Let me tell ya a story. I got no problem with cats who like whatever there gig is if it works for ya go for it. Just so ya know for someone like me “bible thumping” is the biggest turnoff. If part of being a christian is about sharing the faith ya know it would make sense to do it in a way that does not send people runnin for the door. I have shared my story before about my huntin gig with rimrock who has decided not to post here anymore bum deal I think. What I was down most with him was he be a very bible knowing fella but he talked to me like we were sitting on a tailgate together since we were. :cool: He was not trying to sell me nothing just talking normal even shared what he struggle with about how God wipped people out sometimes which was hard for him. Being real and open with his faith I was interested then but when I got back around other christains bible thumping I decided no thanks. :noway: Even you said I should not listen to him but rely on “Gods Word” again to me bible thumping. Ya’ll need to talk normal IMO the bible ain’t this perfect harmony of love and peace there are tuff parts. It meant more to me that rimrock was wanting to spend time with me, invite me huntin, had me over for dinner than any bible thumping. :shrug: That should be more of a lesson to christian folk than endless bible quots. Hey man like I said I am down with what ya believe if it gives ya good props and all its all good. Just wanted to let ya know IMO bible thumpin may not be your best choice.

Ya'll think bible thumpin is good since ya'll believe it but the problem is the thumpin you most likely will hear next is the sound of feet going for the nearest exit. :passout: And thats WWJD??? I think Jesus would have had me over for dinner :shrug:

[Hooked on Fish]

BJS, I believe the written Word is exactly WWJD, or say. In the days when he physically walked among us there were people that didn't agree with him either, even to the point of nailing him to the cross. Granted, I'm the least worthy in this forum to bear witness as I fail as a Christian daily. However, it's the very act of Jesus laying down his life for disbelievers that gives me, and everyone else, hope of eternal salvation.

People have the best intentions but always come up failing in some respect. During my lifetime I've witnessed a long line of televangelist fall. Many of their followers fell away becaue they had a relationship with a man, not Jesus. I've witnessed the same with pulpit preachers. Members having a relationship with a mouthpiece, but not Jesus. Ergo, I've been dissapointed by men over and over, but never Jesus.

The only way to have a personal relationship is to go straight to the source, and the cool thing is, a nobody like me can go straight to the word of God and find out exactly what he wants me to have for my life and my family today.

The reason I'm sharing my experience? Just a potential friend encouraging you to dig a little deeper for yourself. I've had to take my own advice over and over for many years.

Bret

[BJS]

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[jokester]

BJS,

I think you're missing the point a little bit. I don't believe that anyone is here to "bible thump" you to death by spouting scriptures at you :hoboy: We simply use the bible as a means of explaining things because it's the truest form of the word of God that we have! "Straight from the horse's mouth" so to speak. I agree (and I am guilty of it too) that sometimes after we quote scripture or a passage that we need to explain things a little better to those who aren't familiar with what that might mean. Being raised in a christian home, I sometimes take it for granted that others haven't been raised that way and they don't know or understand what I might. I'm trying harder each day to work on that :flowered:

Oh...by the way: You're welcome to fish with me or come over for dinner anytime :grin: Say the word and we'll hook up and talk!

-jokester

[D-tangle]

BJS, you are right. Jesus would just spend time with people who sought Him out, even the Pharisees. He would teach one particular truth as it presented itself into their midst. Generally, Jesus would ask a question to His dinner partner before making His point. We don't know what else Jesus said at these dinner invitations--probably a lot of everyday concerns and small-talk. Important nonetheless, but just not recorded in God's Word. But the point other Christians are making is this: He never compromised Biblical truth in His life. He would leave when asked and never looked back at those not wanting to know Him. He left thousands to perish in their sin and it was the gracious thing to do. I can say 'peace to you' and let you go, also. You choose, then we can have peace. Blessings.

[BJS]

Brennan Manning said, “The greatest single cause of atheism in the world today is Christians.”

Os Guinness said, “Over the course of two thousand years, there is one unanswerable objection to the Christian faith—Christians.”

George Bernard Shaw said, “Christianity might be a good thing if anyone ever tried it.”

Comedian Lenny Bruce said, “Every day people are straying away from the church and going back to God.”

G.K. Chesterton said, “The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting. It has been found difficult; and left untried.”

Archbishop William Temple said, referring to the true body of Christ, not just the denomination of Roman Catholicism, “I believe in the Holy Catholic Church, and I only regret that it does not exist.”

Gandhi said, “I could believe in your Christ if it wasn’t for your Christians.”

Oswald Chambers said, “The hypocrite that Jesus HATES is that exhibited by the Pharisees in the Bible. They stated convictions aren’t their real convictions. This type of hypocrite elevates him or herself in pride, scorn, holding grudges, or anything else so out of character with our Savior. These people are also known to pick and choose which portions of the Bible to believe and obey.”



That’s my point to yall. Rather than ya’ll preaching it try living it first maybe people will listen. One cat lived it here with me and I was preached at not to listen I thought that was the funniest thing ever…nice. :hoboy: IMO ya’ll need to live it more preachin’ it less. The more I have been around christian folk the less I want to listen its just mostly talk. Thats IMO bible thumpin’. What good is it?

[newfly]

thank you bjs. that really starts to get us to the issue at hand. we had some great discussions here a while back that started to go there a while back. rimrock was very helpful because he was able to put the teachings that he followed into words that had meaning.

that is what i don't like about quoting scripture. it sounds to me like an excuse to put the issues aside. i prefer to talk about these things from your understanding in how they affect your behavior as you deal with the world around us. your devotion to a book or to a historical figure, no matter how significant, pale in comparison to the way that you live your life. for me, that is what christianity is about. it isn't the ability to quote scripture or the act of going to church on sunday. it is how you live. going to church on sunday, or quoting scripture on a ng, does not count as christianity. how you live your life, that is what counts. how you treat others, that should count. how you help others rather than judge them, that should count. i am rambling, but my point is that it isn't what you say............to quote a theory that we use for our trainers........"what you do is so loud, i can't hear what you say".

[SKP]

What group of humans totally 100% practices what they preach, except the man Christ Jesus (God the Son)? :shrug:

Not SKP
Not George Bernard Shaw
Not Ghandi
Not anyone
Not President Bush
Not BJS

God's Word is the standard and guiding light, and without it people would fail even worse.


try living it first maybe people will listen



The point is we can't live it first. You can't, I can't, we all can't. We can to a point, but we all fail miserably. I still have a sinful nature, and my mind thinks things it shouldn't, and sometimes my actions do things it shouldn't. And the same is for everyone. Even the Pharisees that might claim differently can't. Pharisees did their good deads for personal show, not to please Christ, Pride is the word.

Step One is not: do all kinds of works first until you are good enough to go to heaven. No one is good enough. How would you measure good enough? Good enough doesn't cut it to go to heaven, no one is good enough. All men will fail you at one time or another.

Read Luke 8, specifically Luke 8:10-14, if you don't want someone to quote scipture to you, go read it yourself. Find out if Christ said the Pharisee (the good) was justified or the Publican (the sinner).

Step One is: Put your trust in Christ and Christ alone for your ticket to heaven. Our "good works" are no good.

Doing good works to get you to heaven won't cut it. Christ already did the good work for you, and said "It is Finished". It's already done for you. How do you measure good works?

Simple trust in the Saviour will get you to heaven.

Doing good works is the most difficult way to justify, it won't even take many lifetimes to weigh out. Humans are not good all the time.

Trusting God, God's way is simple, and is the most simple thing you can do.

God made it simple, so even a child can do it. There are not multiple ways, only one way, God's way.

Out of respect, I did not quote a verse, but could have used many.

SKP

[D-tangle]

SKP, no one can do it like Jesus, as you said. We must walk in the light and He forgives us as we do fail (1 John 1). Bernard Shaw and the others didn't, as you said. BJS seems to think that because we can't mirror Christ perfectly, then we are all hypocrits. I am willing to mirror Christ perfectly in allowing him/her to go in peace if they don't wish to listen about Christ and his saving power. I won't Bible thump (i.e.,repeatedly argue)because it doesn't do any good unless God has opened their heart to listen. Pray, share and leave. God give you peace, Brother.

[BJS]

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[SKP]

BJS, You are preaching or thumpin your belief with passion and excitement, but tell others not too?

I don't quite understand, why you are allowed to thump your belief with excitement and passion, but Bible believers are not? :shrug:

If someone believes in something so much, having passion and excitement in what you believe is not thumpin, it's being very excited about it.

I'm not telling you not to, but rather appreciate your boldness also. Please understand others also have boldness about their beliefs.

I admire and respect your passion for your belief. Please admire and respect Bible believers passion also. It sure is boring and dull to discuss with someone that is boring and dull. It makes it more of a positive situation, when two parties can passionately agree to disagree.

Like the Bible says and common sense says, it's better to be hot or cold and not luke warm. Go buy coffee, it's either hot or some kind of iced coffee thing. But no one sells luke warm coffee.

I appreciate your boldness, it shows that you are/will get places in life, and that you are a more exciting person to be around than a dull or humdrum person.

Cool!

SKP

[rimrock]

I have lately limited my chapel involvement mostly because of my limited time due to ministry, but I have been a bit saddened by some of the Christian reaction in this thread I felt lead to share.

We have an individual among us, BJS, who has a spiritual curiosity but certainly is being more repelled then reached by Christians as of late (that's how he feels if you are listening :depressed:). Bible thumping in the ears of the listener is always a bad way to go it most often sends them running the other way. God’s call for us is to reach not repel which is done mainly by action not so much by thumping Bible quotes. Yes, Jesus spoke the truth but as in the parable of the rich young man it makes a point to tell us that Jesus “looked at him and loved him”. Above everything else Jesus loved him and was saddened by his leaving. Jesus didn’t just tell him the “truth” with a take it or leave it attitude which has been at least implied here that’s not what love does.

Many here are missing what BJS is saying. Did anyone look at the list of quotes? Did you REALLY look at them? Many come from well-know Christian speakers and writers, not just from those on the “outside”. There is truth in those quotes isn’t there? Try loving and listening more, take to heart what someone says to you, value it and then they may listen to what we have to share about Jesus. But only if you respect them first, in other words you must live out your faith through patience, kindness and love; not simply telling them about it.

Please this is not meant to flame anyone or to stir the pot in any fashion, just a gentle reminder for us to be more followers and examples of Christ, and not so much tellers of Christ. :angel:

[If you disagree ask BJS does he feel listened to, valued, loved or just Bible thumped?]

[Hooked on Fish]

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[Bartman]

Not President Bush




:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
(sorry!!! couldnt resist!!)

[newfly]

Please this is not meant to flame anyone or to stir the pot in any fashion, just a gentle reminder for us to be more followers and examples of Christ, and not so much tellers of Christ. :angel:

[If you disagree ask BJS does he feel listened to, valued, loved or just Bible thumped?]



that is a tremendous perspective. i will keep those words in mind in many of the philosphies that i follow.

[Musicman]

Very intersting post BJS, I am a believer in Jesus and do give him my life and thank him for his sacrifice for me. IMHO, you are 99.9% correct in what you see in the evangelizing of the good word...First, a story...I was at work one night, at break doing my breakly biz..you know, peeing! As i'm midstream,no joke, this guy who've i've seen from a different area approaches his "work station", urinal..... as i'm about to finish...he looks my way and say...."you know Jesus?"....I looked and said.."ya, I know Jesus"......took me by such surprise that I zipped and left.....told my wife about it and how "put off" I was by what he said....My bottom line diagnosis was that....sometimes people in their "over zeal!!!" Don't let the Holy Spirit dictate their actions but the "on fire for Jesus" can't wait to save everyone feelings we all get! Not sure if you understand but it's like being a kid and having some great story to tell your mom but it comes out sooo fast that, you mess it up......................After a while I came to approach this guy from the urinal and we talked and prayed together, even had biblle study/prayer time at work during lunch....Sorry you've had some bad experiences, but look at it as a learning exp if you ever want to witness to someone, making it real is truely more effective than the canned, hi "Do you know Jesus" approach.....btw, I appreciate Rimrocks views, my spirit says, "right on man" every time I read what he's written...Sorry RR, if that emabarrass' you bro....I am trueely bless. John

[Dullhook]

You make a good point Musicman about how easy it is to become over-zealous about Jesus. Someone like myself who committed to Christ late in life really does want to share the good news with others. I think many of our Christian brothers and sisters feel this way. I've had pretty good luck with family members and a few friends, but this was "one on one" and sure not over the internet! :smile: I can see where it would be very easy for someone to misinterpret the message and get the wrong impression unless it was during a personal relationship. Jesus can't be "forced" on anyone unless their heart is truly ready to receive Him. At least in my case this was true.

As far as the Bible goes I always need to keep in mind that it really didn't mean anything to me until after committing to Christ. That's when an interest and understanding of it's words actually began to take place. If it's not recognized as the Word of God, it's just a bunch of meaningless mumbo-jumbo. Then again all of us whether believers or not, shouldn't take offense in Bible passages and must remember that many of them are the words of Jesus Himself. WWJD? Well He speaks to us through the Holy Spirit as well as through the Holy Bible. :hearton:

I'd also like to thank everyone for their thoughtful and genuine contributions to this thread. :applause:

[Bartman]

some very good insight on this topic guys :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

[BJS]

Right on Musicman :smash: And LOL LOL LOL funny :jester: :laugh: :laugh:

That be the best ifish post ever dude. :cool: Simple without all them thy & tho speachs ya get with the overtoppers. I give ya big props man. But ya know one thing about thumpers I do not dig is that they "cover up" there pushin' jsut saying they are only high on Jesus. Can't help it ya know. :hoboy: Thumpers need to see they are wrong beating folk up with the word man, sayin sorry is gonna do more than lookin for reasons to do it again.

I bet them christians thumpin the BOOK yellin at gay folk gettin married thought they were just ya know high for Jesus but they are (name calling omitted) IMO.

[Sweet Melissa]

Post deleted by Sweet Melissa

[newfly]

well, this will probably cause a stir, but here goes. i think that there are some very very important concepts (if you will allow me) to think about here.

i honestly and sincerely respect the devotion that most of you have shown and your willingness to comitt to those beliefs that you have chosen.

where i think you fail, fail even in your own beliefs, is your failure to accept that other people may have the same sincerety and devotion to thier beliefs, even if their beliefs are different from your own. you need to respect that and you have to understand that. to do less is to dishonor the discretion that man has, no matter where he got it from. scripture is a problem for me. it isn't your words or your understanding, it is just something that you read. if i am not equally devoted to your concept of religion, why would you think that scripture has some magic meaning to me. you can not help me to understand that way.

i also think that there is a difference in being devoted to your beliefs and preaching. if you are devoted to your beliefs, then you will live them, not try to convice others that your beliefs are the ultimate and only true ones.

my beliefs are not the same as several others here. i know that but at my age, seeing all of life that i have in its good and bad forms, i am no longer so sure that i am right. and additionally, i only want to be right for me.

i enjoy reading your thoughts, in your own words. i enjoy challenging your thoughts when i think you may not be considering the issue from all angles. i don't want to preach. i want to discuss. that is a difference with bible thumpers, i think. i love the discussion, and i love to be challenged and to challenge thoughts and beliefs. in the end however, it is equally important to me that you decide what is right for you. the discussion should be ours, and it should be open. the decision however is yours and it should be private.

anyhow, that is how i see it. my bias here is the strong vilification that i see from some people in thier judgements of others that do not believe the way that they do. that really angers me. and to use christianity or God as a justification for vilifying other religions or life styles, ets, is truly biased thinking. i know i have responded poorly to thiose posts a few times but it just really frustrates me. i don't see tolerance as a form of nuetrality. i see it as a willingness to allow others to chose their own path. along that path however, we all gain from a discussion fo our beliefs and in particular from a discussion of the differences in our beliefs. if we only talk about what we agree about, how do we ever grow. from a spiritual perspective, i want to grow. there is so much i don't know and don't understand. i want information and that is important to me. my beliefs are not static. they change as i change. they change as my understanding changes.

[Bartman]

newfly, :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:
all I can say is " WOW " that is an excellent post and perspective. :applause: :applause: :applause:
Bart

[rimrock]

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[FireCat]

NEWFLY...stir the pot? I loved what you said, And what was most interesting was you said "I"...28 times. Which means You are letting us know, who you are, how you think, how you believe, and what or whom you disagree with.
Which shows you have charecter my friend.
I love decussions but if someone ask me anything about my Lord, I answer and many times I have to use scripture.
For it is Truth, not to my interpetation, but because it speeks to my soul. Now if you or someone else dosent agree then so be it, No offence.

But you do bring up a good point and that is Bible thumpin can lead to head thumpin, If the word is use in a abusive or demeaning way. you see Jesus was around sinners alot. now I want you to think about this, he was accused of being a drunkard and a glutton. was it guilt by assoication? or how far did he go in conforming to the worlds ways? in order to seem relevent to them? how far did Jesus go into looking like them, and sounding like them. Did Jesus use the Middle-east language terms like "it sucks" so people would think he was cool, and they would want to "hang out" with him do to his coolness? Or was it Godliness that they were attracted to? if People were attracted to Jesus in his time, do to his Godliness, I would think his Church should try to figure that out, and behave in a likewise manner. as a important American figure one said "Never have evangelicals tried so had to be relevant and never have they been so irrelevant".
So you see many and myself included see Christ in a different manner than most.
Now i am sure what we can agree on is THE DIFFERENT GROUPS of Christians out their today.
There are the Sign-seekers who love miracles and would would love to see Jesus walk across their swimming pool, Their God wants everyone to be healthy, wealthy (but not wise), anything can be cured, instantly, given enough faith.
Then there is the Material Christian who measures everything, not just money. The bigger , faster, more brilliant, the better. Bigger Churches are better than smaller churches, brilliant preachers than ordanary ones. Success, fame, ambition, optimism. They must attend Amway conventions.
Now you have the Christians that I think we both agree are the ones that anger us both. and that are those who are the so called PHARISEES WHY? BECAUSE THEY ARE PREOCCUPIED WITH TWO THINGS -LAW AND DOCTRINE. So they become legalist and dogmatic. They talk alot about "truth and error". and pay alot of attention to creeds and doctrinal statements. Their "Gospel" repentance precedes accaptance( with jesus its the other way around). And the real acid test is their non-concern for social justice and mercy and true faith. They are fundamentalist and proud of it. The sin of Phariseeizum, if not on guard it can strike us all.
So yo see I think we can find common grond on many of Church issues, A real child of God will never, never critize or put down anyones beliefs or ideas.
Because if Christ did then why did the sinners love him so much?.
Newfly I totally respect your ideas 100% from what I see you are serching for "truth" and you want to make very sure you analize all ideas and concepts. when Christ went before Pilate, the Roman Govenor who could of let Christ go free, Pilate said in a sarcastic way "what is truth" because Pilate was a pawn used by the Jews, he was a government offical who tooks bribes and was sent anyway the political climate went, so Pilate had a very dimn view of what was truth for he didnt see much of it. But I HAVE TO SAY that when Jesus said "I came into the world to bear witness to the truth" we must ask our selves what Pilate did 'WHAT TRUTH" Jesus ment the truth about God, the truth about man, the truth about sin, the truth about Judgement, the truth about LOVE, the truth about holiness, the truth about life and death, the truth about everything, and all I can say Newfly this Jesus has so much to offer to the twentieth centry woman or man who is looking for truth!....Lord bless you my friend

[newfly]

i just don't know firecat, i am tired. i had a hard week at work so maybe i am just in a bad frame of mind. maybe i am wrong here but i am a little tuned up by your answer. i know you meant well and that you spoke from your heart. i am appreciative of that. hopefully i can say what i have to say with respect.

i do not live in the time of the romans or the pharisees. i live in todays world. your answer does not translate for me to todays world. tell me this: how does your religion help us in todays world? how does your God help to bring us together today? what i have seen here is just the opposite. i was drawn here by posts about how christianity was better than other religions. how christianity had the "truth". by posts about how we should see your God as a vengeful God that would seek retribution if you sinned against him. by posts that blamed other "types" of people for the problems of the world (like hollywood for crying out loud). how does that create a world that is better? how do i believe that will create a better world for the two sons that i brought into it? look, if your religion and your God can not offer me a way to help build a better world for us to live together in, then why do you expect me to beleive in it? scripture, or the translation of it needs to address the world today, the world that we live in. your God has to provide me with hope that we all, no matter what religion, sex, race or life style, can live together. if your God can not offer that to me, what can he offer? salvation? that seems pretty selfish. what is salvation then? what is the purpose of your religion then? is it for you or is it for mankind? i honestly do not understand. look, you and i will die. that is a given. we will be judged by what we leave behind, not whether or not we go to this place that you call heaven. have we left the world a better place for those that follow us? i am not convinced that the concept of the God that i read about here does that. if not, should i believe just to save myself? the whole concept of seeing God as a being from the outside in, rather from the inside out confuses me.

until you can answer that, i mean really anwer that............not with words but with action, i think you will have problems getting people to really believe and to commit to what you say.

[FireCat]

until you can answer that, i mean really anwer that............not with words but with action, i think you will have problems getting people to really believe and to commit to what you say.
First of all Newfly I am not trying to get people to believe me or to commit to anything I say, I am not trying to bring people to believe what I do because it gives me some type of satisfacation or pride , I always was raised to believe to find my own beliefs, with my own decision and choice to follow Christ. Remember Newfly that no mater what anyone else thinks about God , it should be your opinion. Dont go by the worlds standards, why let them justify what you should believe and what not to believe?.
You hear people say this and that about the BIBLE,
I hope you will be encouraged to look futher into what the Bible says, not what the world says about the Bible.
If there was ever a post about how my religon or Christianity is better than the rest, then that was not to good of a post in my opinion, this is not a egotistical religious race we are running here.
I did make mention of Hollywood but I wanted to vent and I told Jennie to take it down if it was to abrasive.
But i have known Hollywoods modisoperindi is to deframe the Christian Church, this is also known from those Christians that have served in hollwood as actors that are Christians, also Mel Gibson tooks all kinds of flack from Jack nickelson and many others for his portrail of THE PASSION OF CHRIST. Now Hollywood can blast and make fun of the Church and lable us a the RELIGIOUS RIGHT, But if we speek anything against hollywood we get labled as you say "blamming people for the problems in the world" .
You see they can use their media to get their point across as vile as it may be an I would like to make it known that we the church are blamed for many problems in the world today, by Hollywood and other liberal media outlets.
We have a great freedom in this country to worship the way we want. When the truth is known places like Afganistan, Bangladesh, chechnya (Russia) Chiapas (Mexico), China and tibet, Colombia, cyprus, Egypt, Iran, Kuwait, Laos, Cuba, Turkey, Vietnam, United Arab Emirates and many more have one thing in common and that is they are all restricted nations where Christians are kept from acuiring or obtaining Christian literature by Government policy. the local Government will harass, imprision, kill, or deprive them of possessions and liberties because of their faith in Jesus Christ.
You say that "you dont live in the time of romans snd Pharisees" you live in todays world, I guess what you want to say is "Christianity is outdated" really now! Mans heart has been the same for ages its full of Greed, envy, anger, hate, jealously, pride.
Now these sins were also going on back in the old testament and God didnt say "I am going to kill you if you sin" the people wanted to have rules so it wouldnt be a caotic nation so being God was their leader they sent Moses up to get some rules to be governd by. When Moses came down the people were doing all kinds of sinful deeds for there needed to be law and order, I dont see anything wrong with that, it had been said that there is 1,345 laws in the books today to inforce the ten commandments.
Would you be upset if the powers at large today would severly punish people for killing little kids? hurting someone you love?. Now God has a set of laws also but we cant live up to them. we fail at every corner. and that is where faith and trust in Christ come in, topped off with mercy and grace. Now may I ask you a question, you want a God to bring a world together, How can he do that when over 3/4 of the world kills and tortures his messangers. Newfly he is trying but the world wont listen.
Then there is people who would rather listen to the world give a description about God, who inturn hates God. so how is order suppose to be served?. because the world is the one who sees god from the outside in. THEY DONT UNDERSTAND BECAUSE THEY ARE CONVICTED OF SIN AND THEY LOVE IT TO MUCH!
If my post above troubles you i didnt attend it to, but it is obious that somethin i said or typed on here has made you a little upset, if so then so be it but I do think you are a fine person standing up for what you believe in,
and that is what charecter is all about....Lord Bless

[newfly]

and firecat, i apologize for firing back in that manner. i can be that way, unfortunately. my peers at work tell me that i can be a little "grouchy" at times. please don't take it personally.

[FireCat]

No problem there Newfly...I think we could all use a week of 75 degree sunny days...Lord Bless