tithing?

[BJS]

OK fellas and fellates. I went to a church last Sunday ONLY because a friends was having his kid baptized but it just hammered home how crazed church folk are. Sorry my opinion. I got to sit there and listen to this sermon or should I say guilt trip about “robbing God.” Nice I thought to myself, really how can anyone rob God? Of course the church is going through this big development campigan and they need money to get ‘re done, but its not about that cause it is in the bible right. IMO you can always justifiy anything from the bible thats part of its beauty. :laugh:

Besides that is tithing really what christians are suppose to be doing, is this really a command or is it something else. Help me out here cause I ain’t getting this church stuff.

[FastActionRodTip]

the Bible explicity states giving 10%

[newfly]

two interesting subjects.

first, if you are going to have a place to worship or gather or do whatever, someone has to pay for it. how that is done can be a dicey thing. if you are really involved in the group, i suppose that "donating" money to keep the group alive is a fair and easy thing to do. so those on the inside generally are pretty involved, see where the money goes, and understand the needs. my wife pays a yearly amount for the church that she is involved in. i think that she just pays monthly, but i am not sure. when she takes the boys, she has them give an offerring, so they understand the idea of giving. she can tell them what it goes to because she is involved in several committees that help set budgets for various things that they are doing. so for her tithing isn't like a tax or something, she sees where it goes and is involved in the places where it goes. in her church, it goes to some good places. now for someone who just came to hear the sermon or to visit the church for some specific reason rather than to be involved in the activities, it is more difficult to understand the need. i think that in case we just see it as someone with their hand out to build a bigger church or a larger empire, so to speak. i know it strikes me that way sometimes. but at least for her church, the money is for a budget that honestly supports a lot of good causes, like kids on the streets alone, families that have migrated to our area but need some help getting by until they can get their feet on the ground...........that sort of thing. knowing that makes it easier for me. that is not to critisize what you wrote though. it is a great point. i think that too many people go to church on sunday, pay their "tithing" to feel better but have no idea what the money is used for. can those people really be doing it for the "right" reasons? another thing that has bothered me is the churches that decide for you how much you will pay. tithing in itslef i think is defined as "a tenth", as in 10% of what you make or have. not sure, i may be off there, but that is my understanding. again, if religion is really about what is inside of you, how can the church tell you how much you should pay. doesn't that make it more like an obligation rather than a gift? i don't know.

the other interesting thing that you bring up is the subject of the sermon. "robbing God". why do so many sermons have to be all about the "guilt trip" as you put it? i got into this a bit a month or two ago and upset some people so i won't take it too far, but God as i believe and know isn't about a "guilt trip" or vengance, or judgement or.........well, anyway good questions for discussion. they really center on some important issues related to what the church has become as it relates to each individual. i remember to this day, sitting in church many years ago listening to a sermon with my parents. the sermon had to do with how God was up above watching us, so we better be good or God would know and punish us. i still remember how that upset me and even then i felt that the minister was wrong. i can't see God up there watching me, waiting for me to make a mistake to punish me. man, what a deal to throw on a kid.

[jokester]

BJS,

This is definitely a touchy subject to some. I hope I don't step on anyone's toes with my reply. If I do, please know that I didn't intend to :flowered: That being said...here goes :grin:

If you think about it long enough, you'll realize that everything you have in your life is because of God. The air you breathe, your health, your family, your job, your house, your vehicles...EVERYTHING. So, why wouldn't you want to give back to him and his work?

I think (personally) that too many people nowdays get caught up in the mindset of "I have to pay my tithes because it's a bible law and I want to keep God happy so nothing bad happens to me." Not the attitude to have :hoboy: You tithe and give back to God to show your appreciation for what he's done for you, not to keep you out of trouble! The bible says that God loves a cheerful giver, not a guarded or wary one! You can pay your tithe, go to church every time the doors are open, and live a christian life...and you're STILL gonna have struggles. That's just the way it is! BUT...when those struggles come, you can rest assured that God will always be there to see you through those times.

There are some people who have abused tithing and it's purpose. I hate to use the word televangelist, cause I do sincerely think that some of them are honest, upright people trying to do the will of God. This, however, is where you usually see the tithing part being abused. Enough of that though, because it's not up to you and I to judge them. They will one day have to account for that. I do think those people have done more harm than good as far as setting a good example of teaching why we tithe. And I think that this has hurt churches along the way too.

I feel like I can never repay Jesus Christ for what he's done for me! He died on the cross and took my place so that I could be saved. He's given me my health, a wonderful family, and great friends. He's supplied me with a great job and a steady income...I figure, with all the things he's done for or given to me, and he only asks for 10% in return...I owe at least that to him!!

So, to sum it up, tithing is simply a person's way of giving back a portion of what God has given you!

-jokester

[SKP]

This is a very good question! Thank you for asking.

Tithing is good Biblical stewardship. Stewardship is the same in the real world too.

Luke 6:38, "Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again."

Malachi 3:8, "Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings." - This is the Bible verse you are referring to. This is God's Word, so please don't get upset at the messenger.

Malachi 3:10, "Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it."

So, if no one gave to a church, who would pay the light bills, mortgage, staff salaries, heat bills, and the rest? :shrug: I'd like to know.

If people are giving, the Bible says it shall be given back to you, per Luke 6:38. In your case, the church you mention is having new development. This church will be able to get out of an old, stale, packed out building, into a brand new, building able to accomodate more people with much more comfort, such as new pews, new restrooms, handicapped seating, and everything else. God will pour out a blessing of new facilities to this church having the development going on, with the help of the tither/giver. This new development will help this church do MORE for Christ, I am sure.

At my company, if no one paid for a product or service, how would all the bills be paid? The same can be said of any organization in the world, it takes money to have anything.

I see the results of tithing at my church as people are won to Christ, baptized (you saw the results in your friend's kid getting baptized), lives changed, families strengthened, kid's not getting into drugs, alcohol, and the other things that will ruin people's lives. Having the funds available to minister to those in need is worth every penny.

If it wasn't for someone investing in a Sunday School bus when I was a kid, I couldn't tell you where I would be today - lost, hopeless, in jail?, a drunk? a drug addict?

Here are some real results from tithers, 3 kids are in heaven today, because someone tithed. Our church was able to have a Sunday School bus, that picked up these 3 kids before they died in a house fire a month or so ago. Here is my post on ifish: Tithing Results - 3 Kids in Heaven as Post Previously in Ifish (http://www.ifish.net/forum/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=1084934&an=0&page=1#1084 934)

Thank God for tithers.

SKP

[FastActionRodTip]

and remember, tithing doesn't have to be giving your church 10%....no matter how you share your good fortune the fact is that christians are to help those who are less fortunate...feed those who are hungry, clothe those who are without. I think just having a spirit of goodwill and acting on it is what it is all about

[Dullhook]

I think that compulsory tithing and the 10% requirment were under the old Covenant laws. Many Pharisees observed the tithing laws, but did it not from the heart but rather out of obligation. Remember Jesus called them fools and hypocrites because their lives and actions didn't reflect their professed beliefs. Jesus cancelled many of the old Mosaic laws.

In the N.T. although a 10% tithe is not required, giving from a cheerful heart is blessed by the Lord. In our church as with most, tithing is encouraged as gift to God through the church. Since the church needs funds to operate and honor's God through it's work, the donations are critical. Nobody is forced to give anything and some are unable to because of financial problems.

As for the rest of us, we only have to look to Jesus for the answer to whether we should honor God by supporting our churches and their missions through tithing. :flowered:

[WestsideGal]

Excellent topic you guys. I have struggled with this before too, not because I didn't want to but because I didn't know where the money was going but that doesn't matter to me anymore because I have learned to put my faith in God on this. Whomever handles the finances (tithes) will be the one to answer to God if the money is not going where it should be. There have also been times when I have been out of work and have given 10% of my time or more by helping out whether it be cleaning the church, or getting involved in other things to help out that doesn't cosdt money, this for me was actually more rewarding because I felt more involved. Now I do both.

The thing that gets me is I hear most people say to give 10% before taxes. This is a hard one for me and still is because I am a single mom and after uncle sam gets his share....well, it's quite a big chunk of change. So I personally tithe my 10% after taxes (what I actually get).

Alot of folks will not agree with this including pastors....anybody else have any thoughts on this??

[SharkbaitHoHaHa]

I remeber in a study in ur Ladies Bible study in 1 Corinthians. Paul did not expect a tith from the Corinthians because of problems in the Church they had to fix but he did ask of the other Churches that had been started. The Church's at that time I think did the same as a lot of Churches do today. Is that they have to pay the Pastor and a few others and then they have the missioneries they support and other stuff they support. I struggle with tithing also because of all the things I have to pay but I am working on that part. God likes a cheerfull giver. I remeber in the Gospels it is mentioned of the Pharisies and the Sadusies would make a big deal when they gave to the Temple. One lady came and gave what she had but never made a big deal about it. Jesus told us to give but not show that we are better than someone else because we give more.

[FireCat]

BJS...I was in the "tithing" thing for years untill I did a study, because something was not right on how this was used.
Now first let me say that I agree with giving, giving and more giving. But preachers and teachers today Try to find loop holes and missuse scripture to try and make their people feel guilty about giving.
NEWFLY has some very good thoughts on his points of view. many I had and did a very extencive study and resurch. So for lack of space ill try to keep this short as possiable. to begin with we must keep it practical, and not try to over think or try to add in scripture. scripture will answer itself. First off all if you read the "old law" tithes were not gifts, they were "taxes" in a Theocracy so to speek, tithes were given in adition to other numerous offerings which ended up to be over 22% and sometimes almost 30%. So guess what if you would give only 10% required today you would be "robbing God". Now lets talk about "Robbing God" one of the most missused scriptures that many of todays Preachers like to use to bring on the guilt trip.
One tithe was used to support the Levites who were not allowed to own property like other tribes in Israel(num 18:21-32), However this tithe from the people brought to the levitical priest was not just money.
The goods the Levites received would provide their living for their work in the Tabernachle. they also were to tithe on par of the goods that they received, and were to dedacate to the Lord a tenth to the office of the high priest (num 18:21-28). It was the Levites who were to "bring up the tenth of the tithes to the house of our God,to the chambers of the storehouse"(nehemiah 10:38) so this passage that many use today for laying the guilt trip, means he is not rebuking the people, God is rebuking the Levites for keeping the tithe that went to him.
No where in the Church age, in the new testament tithing is mention, everything about giving is by "FREEWILL".
Some will say "JESUS COMMANDED TITHING" he did not!!!
They say "iT IS FOUND EIGHT TIMES IN THE NEW TESTAMENT"
yes but all of these passages refer to the old testament usage...UNDER THE LAW.. Tithing was practice while Jesus was still living. But may I ask what our Lord ment when he utterd some of his last words befor death, and that was "IT IS FINISHED" it ment no more Law, no more sacrifices, No more Theocracy, and with this old Law every thing is finished and everything that pretained to it even tithing.
Medatate on these words for a sec.."IT IS FINISHED" NO BUTS ATTACHED...why would you go back on Christ words and get something that couldnt be followed even then, and bring it back and make it a bylaw of the CHURCH.
Listen to these words by out Lord "two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector ( one of the most hated despised people in Isreal) The Pharisee said " thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector " i fast twice a week I GIVE TITHE OFF ALL I POSSESS"...and the tax collector, standing afar off would not as much as raise his head, but beat his breast saying "God me merciful to me as a sinner" Jesus said "I tell you , this man went down to his house justified rather the other, for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humnles himself will be exalted" (luke 18:10-14).
So in this day of Grace in which we live i could not come up with any substance on why we should tithe, freewill giving yes! but I have see Churches bylaws that state you should tithe to become a member of this or that Church, all I have to say is "shame on you". This reminds me of the spys that were sent out by the Preist these spys would go into the public mens rooms to peek and see if you were circumsized, if you were not you could not be a christian, because Many Jews were trying to bring the old jewish law of circunsisson in to grace, and Paul put a stop to that.
Nowhere in Pauls writings did Paul, who was remind you at one time one of the most highly reguarded Parasies, mention "you must tithe".
I have herd preachers tell widows to tithe or God will not bless them, in old testament laws, widows the poor and thoes that could not work did not hae to tithe, they were taken care of.
So into todays "megachurch" age where church budget directors go out and "sharp pencil" a statement like "the average income in the community which we live is $75,000 per family so our church should have a income, if we have 200 members, of $150,000 because all should be giving 10%. What kind of "MADISON AVENUE LOGIC IS THIS".
Paul makes it very clear on giving, and if Paul was under guidance by the Holy Spirit I think we should listen, and that is "if a man givee alot he will get alot in return, if he gives sparingly he will receive sparingly", plain and simple, I do not see a Law on tithing here.
And even under grace, which we now live , if I give a gift to my neighbor because he is out of work or whatever, I dont expect anything back in return, ONE OF THE BIGGEST GIMMICKS MANY PROSPERITY TEACHERS USE TODAY IS "GIVE TO GET" this is absalutly wrong! We give out of love and should not expect anything back in return, because when we give to our Lord it is because what he did for us, And if he decides to bless me then so be it. A very selfish person is giving to see what he can get back, and if nothing is comming back many will stop, because their gift was not out of love.
So from what I see our Lord has paid our debt in full all we owe him is thanksgiving and praise! remember we are his children and we have been set free and we are not under any old law such as tithing that causes guilt, fear and condemation...Lord Bless

[SKP]

MayFly, that's right!!!


Whomever handles the finances (tithes) will be the one to answer to God if the money is not going where it should be. There have also been times when I have been out of work and have given 10% of my time or more by helping out whether it be cleaning the church, or getting involved in other things to help out that doesn't cosdt money, this for me was actually more rewarding because I felt more involved. Now I do both.




Tithing is a matter between you and God. A church should teach Biblical stewardship, but should never force people to give, or to be a condition of membership. It must be freewill between you and God to be Biblical. Tithing of talents, treasures, and time are all ways you can give. What God has blessed you with, you should be willing to give back without any wants or expectation of any return.

But you can have return too. Tithing to a church in a building program, you will get to have some benefit there, when the building is done. You will get to sit in a nice, comfortable building.

Our church is in a building program right now, and I am looking forward to playing bastketball in the new gynnasium. I don't give so I can play, but sometimes we still can get a benefit from giving. Just like another benefit, is you can take your tithes off your taxes. If that wasn't a tax benefit, people would still tithe.

The scripture does interpret scripture.

Proverbs 3:9 says, "Honour the LORD with thy substance, and with the firstfruits of all thine increase"

Biblically, tithing should be done first, before everyone else gets their cut, the Bible says "firstfruits of all thine increase", not leftovers or secondfruits. In other words, if you earn $1000.00 gross income every week (wish I earned that much!), you should give the first $100.00 to God. Since our paychecks can't be set up to give the first $100.00 to God, we have to give our tithe out of our net income that we receive. So let's say our net income is $750.00 after taxes, health insurance deductions, 401K, and anything else. Biblical tithing would be to give the first $100.00 of that $750.00 check before grocieries, gas, house payment, car payment, and so on. $100.00 of $1000.00 is 10%. On net, $100.00 on $750.00 is 13.3% if you believe you should tithe on net income. 3.3% isn't much of a difference, just $25 bucks, if you only give $75.00. God's not going to strike you dead if you believe either way, whether tithe off gross or net, it's really so close to each other.

I've prayed about it, and this is what I believe God wants me to do though, is to tithe off gross income.

As for New Testament, Old Testament, is tithing for now?, This is again between you and God. Ask God what is right, He will show you. You do what God shows you through His word.

The ten commandments are the Law of the Old Testament, but every one of the commandments are applicable for today too.

You may say, what about the sabboth day (notice the little s, not capital S), should we keep the sabboth day? Yes, the principle of the sabboth should also be followed today, so yes, you should keep the sabboth (seventh) day.

Exodus 20:8-11 says, "8: Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9: Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11: For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it."

Read closely, sabboth simply means seventh. If you work six days, you should take the seventh day off. You should not work all seven days of the week. Nowhere in the Bible is Saturday the sabboth day. Any day can be the sabboth or seventh day of your work week. The principle of the sabboth day is that you should work 6 days, and one day you should rest. The Jews have made Saturday their sabboth or seventh day. But we also should have a sabboth or seventh day. If you work Monday through Friday, and work in the yard Saturday, Sunday should be your sabboth or seventh day, in which you rest. Our Pastor preaches all day on Sunday, so that is one of his work days. His day off is Friday, so his sabboth or seventh day to rest is Friday. That's the principle of the sabboth.

The principle of tithing is the same. It is applicable in both Bible times as it is today.

I hope that makes some sense, I didn't intend to type that much, but I can type fast.

SKP

[Snapset]

I see tithing as a commandment. I believe God gives us commandments so we can be happy. I pay tithing, and it has in the past required considerable faith. By paying tithing, I have not gotten rich, but I am happy. As I become more obedient to God's commandments, I keep getting happier and happier.

[BJS]

Ok I am down with the idea of a organization needs money to keep goin’ Never thought about it that way. To the gigs I like I give money and mostly time to support hunting groups so if church is your deal that makes total sense.

Like newfly said I do not see God as a cosmic cop lookin’ to bust us. Ya got to admit guilt trips come with the territory with a bunch of christians. Like one post I had ya know ya got to pray THE PRAYER this one way or else, got to give your 10% or else, JC is the only way to God or else, gotta believe the bible word for word or else, gotta be baptized or else, ya’ll got a lot of or elses. :laugh:

I think the tithing gig for the most part is not about building Gods kingdom but building more momunents to man. :twocents:

[FastActionRodTip]

The thing that gets me is I hear most people say to give 10% before taxes. So I personally tithe my 10% after taxes (what I actually get). Alot of folks will not agree with this including pastors....anybody else have any thoughts on this??



I don't think God is up there with a Texas Instruments calculator checking on this, he knows what spirit you gave in

[CATCH AND EAT]

I think that compulsory tithing and the 10% requirment were under the old Covenant laws. Many Pharisees observed the tithing laws, but did it not from the heart but rather out of obligation. Remember Jesus called them fools and hypocrites because their lives and actions didn't reflect their professed beliefs. Jesus cancelled many of the old Mosaic laws.

In the N.T. although a 10% tithe is not required, giving from a cheerful heart is blessed by the Lord. In our church as with most, tithing is encouraged as gift to God through the church. Since the church needs funds to operate and honor's God through it's work, the donations are critical. Nobody is forced to give anything and some are unable to because of financial problems.

As for the rest of us, we only have to look to Jesus for the answer to whether we should honor God by supporting our churches and their missions through tithing. :flowered:



Excellent post Dullhook. :applause:

I give because I want to give not because I have to. Do I expect blessings from this? Nope, but guess what. I am blessed the moment I give to God's work, not the church. Did you get that? God's Work! I am blessed because I am able to give and really that should be enough right? But you know God keeps giving back, blessing my family at times beyond comprehension.

Funny how many times we have proven God's blessing in our lives. We have given when it has been a real challenge for us and God continues to bless us beyond what we have given. Is that the reason we give? Nope. We give because we want others to come to Christ through the ministry of the church and or missions we support.

One person said you "don't have to give to the church". Right you are. Giving to and organization that supports Christ's work is fine too. Guess it is just a preferrance of the person giving.

If you give because you believe it is a requirement and it is not coming from your heart then you are missing the point. God gives you the ability to sustain your life here in the form of a job, gifts, so on.... It's not truly your money so to speak. :idea:

Give from your heart and do not give with strings attached. Giving with strings attached = no blessings for you.

Televangilists: touchy subject for me too. You have to decide in your heart who is real and who is not. Ultimately God will judge them so you don't have to. :wink:

[Got One!]

Deuteronomy 14

22 Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year.

23 And thou shalt eat before the LORD thy God, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there, the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstlings of thy herds and of thy flocks; that thou mayest learn to fear the LORD thy God always.

24 And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it; or if the place be too far from thee, which the LORD thy God shall choose to set his name there, when the LORD thy God hath blessed thee:

25 Then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the LORD thy God shall choose:

26 And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,

27 And the Levite that is within thy gates; thou shalt not forsake him; for he hath no part nor inheritance with thee.

28 At the end of three years thou shalt bring forth all the tithe of thine increase the same year, and shalt lay it up within thy gates

29 And the Levite, (because he hath no part nor inheritance with thee,) and the stranger, and the fatherless, and the widow, which are within thy gates, shall come, and shall eat and be satisfied; that the LORD thy God may bless thee in all the work of thine hand which thou doest.


Tithe is based on your increase over the year before not on your income. Tithe also isn't supposed to be in cash, it is to be in food and drink, and shared or given at a holy place.

The tithe from your increase of every 3rd year which would go to your priest who would then share it with those in need.

A so called church that tells you tithe (which means tenth) or else is not a church, it is an enterprise and they will be dealt with by God in a way God sees fit.

Render therefore unto Caesar the things which be Caesar's, and unto God the things which be God's.

God didn't make money man did, God made food and earth and water.

Food, not Money....But I suppose with that concept there wouldnt be any opulent churches around...and there is nothing wrong with giving more than your 10% in food either :-D

Bless you all!!

[FireCat]

I think there is a misconsecption on what we call today "the age of grace" and old testament law. Now out of love for everyone here who posted you all have great points. But IF we "bring up the dead" so to speek and reserect the old commandment of tithing then it runs into conflict with new testament giving.
So how much should a Christian give? The Holy spirit moved upon Paul to write " we should give what he has decided in his own heart to give, not reluctantly our under compulsion, why? FOR GOD LOVES A CHEERFUL GIVER!...NOT TITHER!! (2 Corinth 9:7) no set amount or percentage of income is dictated, rather "if the willingness is there, the gift is acceptable according to what one has, not according to what he does not have" (2 Corinth8:12)
Christians according to New testament guidlines should give:
In proportional to ones income ( 1 Corinth 16:2, 2 Cornith 8: 12)
Consistent ( 1 Cornith 16:2 )
Sacrificial ( Mark 12:43-44, 2 Corinth 8: 2-3)
Cheerful ( 2 Corinthians 9:7)
We should live our lives open handed, knowing that we are merely stewards of Gods possessions.
Now with saying that If tithing was still in effect during the beginning of the CHURCH AGE then there would of been a contradiction in what God said in old testament law and what the Holy Spirit was saying to Paul, Because noware in the start of the Church age or "age of grace" Do we see where Christians were told to tithe by any of the Apostles, because remember beloved that the Apostles wrote as the Holly Sprit moved upon them...Lord Bless

[WyEm]

Tithing is such a thorny subject for most of us because the bondage of money is so very strong on our hearts.

First, it cannot be disputed that there is a Biblical basis for believing that you are "cheating God" if you pay less than 10%. Malachi 3:8-10 tells us:

"Will a man rob God? Yet you rob me.
"But you ask, 'How do we rob you?'
"In tithes and offerings. You are under a curse-the whole nation of you-because you are robbing me. Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. Test me in this," says the LORD Almighty, "and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that you will not have room enough for it."

Now, Malachi is an OT book. (However, I would point out Malachi 3:6 "I the Lord do not change" but a discussion of OT relevance is beyond the scope of this email). So, what does the NT say about it?

Jesus spoke of a tithe (10%) once: ""Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices-mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law-justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former." Matt. 23:23, Luke 11:42. So there is a suggestion that we are not to neglect giving a tithe (a tenth).

However, 2 Cor. 9:7 sets the NT standard: "Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver." With a warning that those who sow sparingly will reap sparingly and those who sow generously will reap generously. 2 Cor. 9:6. Therefore, whether you give 5% or 25%, depends on what your heart tells you to give.

So, remember to ask the Lord for wisdom (James 1:5) in your decision rather than relying upon a "rule." We cannot deny that the Bible certainly suggests 10% giving is expected of us, but "when" it is expected of us I believe depends entirely on where we are in our personal walk with the Lord. As we mature in Christ, more will be expected of us. We each are to carry our own loads and not to compare ourselves with others. Gal. 6:4-5.

[in 'em]

If you find the right Church, get involved, read the Word daily, live a prayerful life, and strive towards heaven, there should not be an issue with giving 10% of your money. Life is soooo short...oh it hurts to really imagine...our time on earth is so minute when comparing it to eternity. Our life on earth is like one grain of sand on an endless beach, one point on a neverending line, one breath of the infinite atmosphere... What are we holding on to? I am as guilty as the next guy, but man, when you really step back from it all and put life in perspective, it is so humbling. Life is easy...is it not? Just take it one breath at a time, looking to and living for Him. And remember, those around you may only have this little time on earth to enjoy...instead of eternity.

[FearNoEvil]

i dont give to my church (havnt been in 7-8 months) so now i'll just give my lunch to a homeless man in seattle, or give a couple bucks, makes me feel way better knowing that im helping this man/woman.. although i fear most of the time the moneys going for drugs, this is why i LOVE to give food, i know they will be living for another day, and not ODed on the sidewalk.

[FireCat]

FEARNOEVIL...I go along with you, I give very little to my Church now It has grown from 15 to 2,300 in a little over 8 years...so There are doing fine financialy. I give to Portland rescue, and to this Organization http://www.persecution.org/newsite/index.php?PHPSESSID=f09820508f918b3aaa2c89eaf5d8c8 36...I just find it so very humbled when a Muslum or hindu that has been in there cult for many years then out of our our Lords mercy leads then out. They accept Christ and then they get beaten, killed or tourtured. I just have to help these young brothers for many will receive the most glorious crown given by our Lord and that is the "MARTYRS CROWN"

[Steel-head]

First off I'd like to admit that after going over my tax recipts, my wife and I only gave around 7%. We are really trying hard to improve on that. I also dont think there is a set amount of cash we must give in order to get into heaven, I haven't read anything about a cover charge at the pearly gates. I believe along the lines of giving with a cheerful heart, and giving a much as you can. All that aside I'd like to point out that the people that complain most about tithing 10%, don't seem to have a problem paying 30-40% to our government who is fraught with corrupt spending and rarely spending in a godly manner. I'm not trying to make this a political issue, but I just dont see a point in arguing why not to give money to our churches.

[Steel-head]

I'm not trying to make this a political issue, but I just dont see a point in arguing why not to give money to our churches.

[/quote]

I'd also like to ad that I don't think we should limit giving to church, but also organizations such as Firecat pointed out.

[FireCat]

Steelhead..please understand I am in no way advacating "not giving to our church"...forgive me if I came across this way. I do give to my local Church, but when my lord lays it on my heart to give to a special need Where brothers are in need of food clothing, etc, these come up in church also and I go "for it". But when my church buildings and land and total assests are over "$800,000". And meeting budget, Then I see some brothers and sisters that have just came under severe persacution and need help I am first to help financually. Now this is me, everyone is not the same. You see I have held positions on church boards, some were very honest in what they do , others would want to borrow to extreemly high limits, then come up with these goofy scriptures that have been taken out of context, to twist the arm so to speek, of the body of christ to give more. when the church preaches "dont go into debt" and then turn around and be so hipicritical when they finance more than they pay back.
If I see a good wholesome church geting started and are struggling many times the Lord lays it on my heart to help them out. This is just my way, and by the way STEEL-HEAD dont feel guilty, God loves a cheerful giver, Remember Satan likes you to see the percentage and tell you "Not enough you dont measure up" but God says "thank you my faithfil servent your gift has blessed many" His blessings are always positive. God never will measure you on your amount, for we are under Grace and can never out give God, He will graciously Just say "than you". Satan loves to put you down, make you feel unworthy, guilty. and he can do this by bringing up law. Because Law shows us we cannot measure up. But by Grace we give and give abundantly, with "NO BUTS" attached. Dont forget some are gifted in giving, others struggle, that is why Grace says "thank you" for you gift of love, period!!!....Lord Bless

[Afishinado]

There is a new book out by Dr. Kregg Hood entitled "Take God at his Word" - experience the power of giving. Pick it up, its a quick read about 60 pages. I found it very enlighting. Dr hood is a christian, i think assembly of God, but im not sure. Anyway. it was an excellent read. One of the things i found interesting was his review of portions of the book of Malachi. Specifically Malachi 3:10 "Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. "Test me in this", says the Lord ALmightly and see if i will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that you will not have room enough for it... The premis of this book deals with taking god at his word when he mentiones giving. Pick it up it was an excellent insight.

[FireCat]

AFISHINADO.....kregg hood is a financial counselor and money coach for a few small Bussiness. Now with saying that he does have some very good insight on how to deal with money. But as I have mentioned before Malachi is a very miss quoted Book. Malachi 3:8, the Lord continued speaking to the priests. "Will a man rob God (Elohim)? ..." Now religious ministers use this scripture to deceive and condemn the people into giving tithes, but in reality this scripture was written to the priests. The reader should re-read the first three chapters of Malachi to see whom the prophet is addressing: the people of Israel or the priests? Remember that Malachi is being shown a vision by GOD (Note to the reader: Compare Mal. 1:1 and 2:1 and follow the continuity of thought Malachi is not quoted as scolding the assembly, Malachi is scolding the Preist. And many scolors agree with this. Now when the Church age begun Paul didnt take around with him Old Manuscript. Now the word says that Paul was a Pharisee, the son of a Parisee.Paul was very ridged pertaining to the law even to the point of persecuted the christians to death. Here was one guy that if tithing was instatuted for the Church age, he would have made it known big time. But nowhare in the age of grace through new testament writing does he or another Apostile mention tithing. and if Paul dont why would the "arm twisting Teachers of today do it?" . The holy spirit was giving them new revelations on love, life and giving and we know that the Holy Spirit is part of the triune Godhead. I dont want to be redundant here but "God loves a cheerful giver period". There is nothing wrong about reading books on how to deal with money, heaven knows we all need it and it is good to read one writen by a christian author. But I feel there is a danger in "giving to get". I feel that there is danger in using "God to be wealthy"...Now some of you may not agree with this but that is kewl, I still love ya anyway. If anyone here gives 10% and does it in a godly attitude great! Our Lord will bless you, but if you are giving to get something in return, I cant see where this is out of love. And this is the modesoperendi of most of the the TBN gang.
Iknow people on both sides of the fence (tithers and grace giving) and both are blessed but both go through trials and testing. Remember we serve a very graceful loving God and he meets us where our faith is. If your faith only abels you to give 2% or whatever Our Lord will say "thank you". Now what would you rather have in return, more things?...or more faith? so you can increase your giving. through prayer you can request more faith and our Lord will grant it because that is a very unselfish prayer, and he may give you a little more just for loves sake. Or should I give and say "ok Lord I gave I expect a big house nice car etc." selfish, selfish, selfish...TV has many of them.
When Paul would travel to the poor churches other churches would take a offering and much was given because it was given out of Love, and that is all our God requires out of us nothing more.....Lord Bless

[Afishinado]

i absolutly agree firecat.

[Steel-head]

Hey firecat, I never intended to critisize your tithing practices at all. I was just off on a rant. sorry.

[FireCat]

STEEL-HEAD....No problem....Dude!....I never even thought of it as critisizum..Just you making a point...which was well taken.